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In Reply to: RE: Amp for new AR 3 owner posted by sberger on October 16, 2015 at 22:24:56
Tube amps were used to drive AR3s because that's what was available. They are very inefficient. They need power. And they can use the control of a high damping factor. I'd advise a quality solid state amp of 100 watts or more.
By the way when AR published the frequency response of the speakers they showed each driver(and crossover) separately. That hid the fact that at the center level of the level controls for the mid and tweeter were set lower than the woofer(because of high frequency noise on records, the mid dome crossed at 1000 Hz basically a low tweeter). In fact the tweeter at center is set lower in volume than the mid dome. If you want flat response the level controls must be set high(all the way I think but not sure).
Follow Ups:
The AR3 and 3a have a stepped on axis frequency response. Set to the "dot", midrange level was -3bd relative to the woofer, and tweeter level was attenuated by an additional -3db. However the dome drivers have outstanding off axis response- much better than contemporary competition and still excellent by the standards of today. Why is this important? AR designed their speakers to reproduce acoustic instruments playing in a reverberant concert hall, from a seating position of mid hall. Home placement directions were for a listening distance of 10-15 ft from the plane of the speakers. The listener would hear a mix of on axis and reflected sound, with reflected sound filling in a portion of the stepped mid and HF frequency response. Perfect for a symphony or jazz group. Not so good for RnR.
Suggest you start with the level pots set to the dot, then see if a higher setting sounds better. With levels set to max, midrange response is essentially flat relative to the woofer, and the tweeter is approximately -3db.
The dome drivers are 50-55 yeas old. Overdriving will harm them. Clipping from an underpowered amp will destroy them.
Best, Ross
- I have extensive experience with AR speakers. I have pairs of 3a/ 11/ 5/ 2ax and 92.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm looking forward to trying them.
I certainly will be careful about overdriving them. I listen typically at very moderate levels. There won't be any underpowered amps being used. I have 3 amps that will deliver 170, 200, and 350 watts. So I think I'll be set there.
My listening position is about 12 feet from the speakers. Looks like I'm ready for take off. Now just have to get the speakers.
Playing at normal or even high levels with high power amps is not a problem. Mid 80s average levels only take a watt or 2 and musical peaks are mostly ultra short especially on classical music. In fact a good high power amp will be better behaved at levels way below capacity than a small amp.
Thanks for the information.
I'll be using a Yamaha M-4, 170 watts at 4 ohms, so I would think that would do the trick? And for backup, just ordered a Crown XLS1000, 350 watts @ 4ohms. So I think I have the power thing taken care of.
On the Crown amp, the power is high but that does not mean it is going to sound good. This is a commercial amp made for high power not necessarily for good sound. I know you mentioned good reviews on the net. I would take these with a grain of salt. When someone spends money they want to think they made a good purchase so of course the reviews are going to be good. There was a poster here about six months ago enthused about the Crown amp. He purchased it online with a seller that had a return policy. He ended up sending it back. There are good values in audio but no miracles. A amp that is inexpensive is not going to be all that great. I hope your purchase is back by a no hassle return.....
Just a side note. Got the Crown amp and am using it currently with my restored KLH 5's, a speaker not unlike the AR 3A. It delivers a very warm, tonally inviting big sound with a solid punch. Very smooth, not at all what I was expecting from a solid state pro amp, especially for the price. Easily as good as my Yamaha M-4. Easily underpriced at $179 from Amazon. I bet it will sound great driving the 3's. I will do a shootout once the 3's get here with it, the M-4 and an Adcom GFA 5400 I have coming.
I hear you. There have been a lot of great reviews on the Classic Speaker pages by known and trusted AR aficionados. I take all reviews with more than a grain of salt(hell, I've been checking in to these pages since '99) and I agree with the premise that you basically get what you pay for. But for the price(and yes, there is a warranty/guarantee through Amazon) I thought it was at least worth a shot. I've purchased more than a few audio pieces over the years for cheap that turned out to be excellent performers, and I've purchased stuff for way too much money that turned out to be lousy.
That said, I have the Yamaha M-4 which should work well. And I may end picking up an Adcom GFA-5400. Nothing like a little experimentation.
I think you are going to be happy with the M4. I have one and I like it quite a bit. It should be more enough power for the situation that you describe. The Adcom should also sound great. Just be careful. Either amp is capable of blowing the woofers if pushed to hard.
Dave
Yup won't be using these to blow the roof off the house. Not that I do that anymore anyway.
I have some Sansui speakers for that!
Dave
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