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In Reply to: RE: Audio Research SP3 restored posted by collinsrobert67 on April 05, 2015 at 15:55:38
When you say "it (the SP3) is in a different league..." you are right. You see, the Citation 1 phono stage uses Passive EQ while the SP3 phono stage uses Active Feedback EQ. A well restored Citation 1 can sound nice, too...ENJOY the journey !
Follow Ups:
Lar,
I know from talking and coming to your house that you are a favorite of active Eq in the phono. Why? What is your favorite phono. I know you always talked highly of the Shure phono.
Hi...In my experiences, active feedback EQ for phono simply sounds more natural to me.
The Shure M65 and the chrome cutie phono stages I like need tweaks to sound right. Their EQ parts' values were meant for specific mm cartridges. The Shure M65 was designed with early stereo Shure carts; optimized for the M3D and M7D. The M65 will sound "bright" with many other mm carts as it has a built-in treble boost. The simple tweak is raising the cap value on the treble cut "pole" to the usual 700-750 pf across the 100K resistors.
Those chrome cutie stereo phono stages I renovate, usually from Japan, have EQ values chosen for a Japanese cart that was rarely imported. Isn't that ironic ? Those chrome units sold by every distributor in the USA are still easily found everywhere. Yet, the stereo cart that they designed with is like unobtainium ! Renovating these with proper RIAA EQ is a chore since their innards are crowded. The resto efforts are very worthy, since, as you heard, these can better a rebuilt Shure M65.
Way back in the late '70s/early '80s, I "graduated" from a modded Dyna PAS 3 to an upgraded Paragon E preamp. I still have the E and definitely give that phono stage top honors. However, I can thoroughly enjoy my chrome cutie stereo phono stage. The Paragon E uses cascode 12AX7s and a beefy power supply; which seem to result in fantastic dynamics with a huge, deep soundstage. The Paragon E is proof that active feedback EQ can sound accurate, fast, dynamic and articulate; besting any passive EQ phono unit I have tried in my systems. BTW, while the E stayed, an ARC SP-3A and Lux CL-32 have departed. My treasured ARC SP-2 will also depart; but the E stays...along with my Eico HF-85 or Lafayette KT-600 used as my line stage preamps.
When you were over, you brought your impressive LCR phono pre, equipped with passive EQ units from SILK of Thailand, IIRC. I really liked the speed and huge soundstage. However, as you probably remember, I found that unit very forward sounding in my systems. While I can enjoy a forward sounding soundstage, I prefer more depth than forward. One of my audio philosophies is the belief that our speakers set up the theatrical proscenium arch and "stage." Thus, I expect the performers to "appear" behind the speakers, as though the speakers represent the front of the theater's stage. Maybe, if my rooms were much larger, I would see/hear things differently...
Another realization that needs mentioning is the fact that my/our generation was very used to hearing active feedback EQ. You see, most radio stations and transcription sound studios used phono stages for playback with active EQ. The studio I worked for 10 years from the mid '70s to the mid '80s used a Shure SE-1 phono stage as our reference. That studio pro grade unit is like a more accurate Dyna PAS with an added line stage that utilized am additional 12AY7 to a UTC A-25 plate to line tranny at the output. During that era, the radio stations I also worked used active EQ for phono playback. Also, growing up at my home, my older brother used Dynaco ss preamps; which, of course, utilize active feedback phono EQ. Combine this with the fact that the most popular studio record cutter amps, during the '60s through the '80s, utilized active feedback EQ, we can rest assured active feedback EQ was/is the sound of our generation...ENJOY !
I think a lot depends on you personal tastes and what music you listen to. The EAR Phono stage is also active and many people think very highly of it. It is my understanding that my much loved Shaded Dogs and MLP classical albums were cut with cutting heads that used active eq. It is very possible that these records playback more accurately with active eq. Possible, but I do not know for sure. While I have heard both active and passive eq, I really couldn't tell you which was more accurate. I suspect I would be very happy with either preamp.
Dave
Interesting. I bought an original SP3 for peanuts, can not remember the price but less than $20 that was not working. I had the SP3a1 at the time. Sent it to ARC to go through it. The problem was a thermister. T the time ARC was offering an upgrade to the a1 version for cheap. I had a bloke who I had sold a system to who wanted the preamp in lieu of his C22 to go with the MC225. He was willing to pay for the upgrade so, he ended up with a SP 3a1 From fhe SP3. I did not know it was had a history. If I had maybe I would have kept it original and had a new thermister installed.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
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