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In Reply to: RE: Pioneer 70's gear posted by rws on March 22, 2015 at 08:49:15
Pioneer made everything under the sun.
They advertised it on the inside front cover two-pages worth, back cover and all over the magazines in the day.
For this reason Tom, Dick and Harry rolled to the local dealer dying to buy the BIG pioneer but they could only afford the little guy and today, well T, D & H have the wherewithal to buy what they want and have bid up the Pioneers well past their performance level.
But they are well built and have some of the best service manuals around. All the gear back then was generally discrete and easily repaired with parts available today.
As the Yen started to rise in value the size of the transformers started getting smaller and the major brands decided to make gear selections for the public, building a stack of gear to stuff into a glass-fronted cabinet and provide a pair of speakers the same size as that cabinet. Junk mostly and the end of most decent vintage gear, 1983-1985.
As stated there are better brands. I'm not naming my preference because folks search the web and learn, upping demand and prices.
No way in hell is a Pioneer SX-1980 worth the 3 grand it can get. For 3 grand one can get a really nice preamp poweramp and tuner with money left over.
DAng vintage craze, just like muscle cars.
Follow Ups:
He was asking me about it as a friend of his may have a lead on a troubled one.
I was telling him how its really far from a good option short of turning it for a better setup. I told him how it is a complete nightmare to work on. Also the cost to rebuild it properly would be a crazy sum minus unit purchase alone. Even on a fluke you get it for say $100-500 your still going to spend more than that just to do a basic rebuild. Heck a full rebuild would be double that Id guess. AND FOR WHAT!
Not that its a bad receiver. Just like you say, when approaching $1K-2 your well in the range of FAR better gear IMO.
I remember not long ago a fellow on another site was selling a lovely Aragon 4004 for around $700. Now we are looking at a 200 WPC amp that can drive any speaker out there no problem and sound wonderful doing so. Incredibly well made. Easy to service (by comparison especially). To me a 4004 and a 1980 are not even in the same ball park. Again not that a 1980 is terrible. Just totally different beasts on many levels. Heck for $1K and under you could grab a used Parasound HCA amp and preamp. Again a better option IMO. Then like you say at $3K you should have your head examined and or been someone for an actor to base a character off of in Wolf of Wallstreet LOL...
Then I come to learn his bud has a pair of vintage Altec speakers. Oh good lord... Why not tow your Honda Spree home with your friend's 18 wheeler :) Just as desirable effects.
I mentioned to him right now in our area on Clist someone (prob someone on this forum LOL) has a HK 730 for $150 and another fellow has a slightly over priced Pioneer SX-1010 for $600. If his bud listens at normal levels that 730 would be an end all. If he listens at levels to shake the walls grab the man that started it all, the 1010. He could have the best of either world for sane $. If he has to go vintage receiver couldnt go wrong with either. And have a rebuild for a reasonable sum.
Heck buy a rebuilt Dynaco tube and a home made pre for under $1K.
Anyway it is funny where the vintage scene has gone. Still plenty of great options for reasonable money. Just as Public Enemy says, Dont Believe the Hype ;)
... was designed as a 'statement' piece -- but not the kind of statement that spawned, e.g., Pioneer's TAD effort.
The 'statement' -- how much stuff, colored lights, knobs/buttons and - oh yes - FTC 1974-compliant watts-per-channel can we stuff into a big box.
Actually (OK, "arguably" is probably a fairer choice of word), Pioneer didn't win 'the receiver war'. In terms of sheer output power, Technics beat them with a higher-power (albeit more cheezily constructed) entry...
... and "Marantz" (Superscope) certainly bested 'em in terms of sheer Rococo over-the-top aesthetics...
Still kind of a mystery why anyone thought that stuffing all of those heat-producing components into one (relatively speaking) small but supremely heavy box was a good idea.
So, from my perspective: If one actually wants a Pioneer 1970s-era ss receiver... and one's intent is actually to listen to it... something like an SX-727 or X-737 would be a reasonable - and even reasonably cost-effective - choice. The latter has the option of NOT requiring the goofy polarized speaker plugs required by the former.
(of course, just my hardly-humble opinions)
all the best,
mrh
I actually have one of these... although I don't really use it. It's not keeping the best company on the shelves.
all the best,
mrh
I have that Lafayette!
Dave
Yeah it seems these older low powered receivers are often folks favorites.
I know Realistic often gets little respect. Some do some dont. I was really pumped when I read all the positive stuff about the STA-120. Seems this is the first edition too. A bit more P2P in its build. Even has bass mid high for tone controls. I know these pics are bad but both are in pristine condition.
Was so happy then I discovered the outputs on the 120 appear to have been replaced at some point. Oh well... For what I have into em it doesnt matter. Really unusual to see Bendix outputs.
Be great to know what should be in this guy. I wouldnt mind dropping the coin for whatever new production OnSemi counter part could go in it.
The 235 appears to be all original. Has Sony outputs in it. Must have been a decent unit Id think.
Once upon a time when Realistic made some halfway decent stuff.
Thought Id add to the party :)
That STA-235 was actually a very popular receiver. I think Pioneer was the actual manufacturer. It had decent power and a good tuner. It worked well in a living room, bedroom, or dorm room (where I saw a few). It has both sonic an nostalgic merit.
Dave
Thats good to hear. It sure looks nice and on the inside appears to have been well made.
I know RS used Pioneer as an OEM manufacturer for quite some time. Not that they didnt use others. But yes for some time ALLOT of RS's receivers sure looked like Pioneer offspring!
I recently read on another site, in reference to the many reasons for RS demise... That RS was known for screwing over their OEM manufacturers efforts. They would buy products no doubt designed and built by whomever. Then pass the design off to a lower bidder. Clearly I cant attest to any of this first hand. But it makes sense IMO.
Really harkens to todays China knock off market many know and love LOL... Can you say alibaba ;) Really gotta wonder how much gets watered down in the receive and duplicate world. No question a good deal. Theres a reason its cheaper in todays competitive world!
Thanks for the input!
I bought a Radio Shack Auvio HD tuner when they were clearing them out for $30. It does have a plastic face, but I installed the rack-mount ends that came with it and it looks very cool in my rack of vintage high end gear. It actually works very well. It is loads of fun to surf for music. It is not the best sounding tuner I have heard, but it is not bad. The sound can be improved by connecting the digital outs to a good DAC. So even recently they had good stuff.
Dave
Would be an STA-95 (or the lookalike STA-960 of 1981).
Actually, I wouldn't mind having on of the R/S receivers that used MOSFET outputs, either -- but they're too 'spensive nowadays (which is actually on topic for this thread, come to think of it!).
all the best,
mrh
...and except for a worn selector switch, it works works well and sounds nice. Well worth what I paid.
Later Gator,
Dave
It's not my cup of tea, aesthetically.
I like this though ...
My favorite TOTL receiver from back then. The CR-3020 was quite wide at 25" ...but a measly 180 watts.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
nah, Marantz look $1M better.
;)
I had one of those Yammies and to this day I REALLY regret selling it. Yammaha really did make some of the all time classic 70's gear. Both in looks and sound.
...:enough so that it replaced several units; Pioneer SX650 or SX750 (not sure which), Kenwood KR6600, and an Outlaw Audio RR2150. Actually, the 2150 replaced the 4500 but was taken out of service (the 4500 put back so I would have something to listen to) and taken to Ribfest as a demo and just never put back in service. These beasts get quite heavy and shifting all of the patch cords can get old; well, unless you are Lily Tomlin.
Later Gator,
Dave
wish I had one of those, too...
Particularly nice tuner sections in the Onkyos (as well as nice standalone tuners from Onkyo in those days).
all the best,
mrh
Probably... ;-)
all the best,
mrh
Thanks for posting that picture again. I never get tired of it.
Having worked in hi-fi when the 20-Series was current I have a strong affinity for it.
I'd love to go back in time and do it all over again. It was such an exciting time for hi-fi. Folks would come in with records under their arms and spend a lot of time listening to different things in an effort to find what components made their music sound best, within their budget.
Contrast that with the norm of today ...a pair of shit headphones and an iPhone.
I miss those days and still use equipment from that era. I think (in terms of hi-fi) those were better times.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I like the look of older Yamaha too. It is much nicer then the 80's black units.
Dave
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