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In Reply to: RE: Vintage speakers. Alnico Ferrite so on. The good the bad and ugly. Experiences audiomind ;) posted by 2chJunkie on February 21, 2015 at 08:12:05
Hey 2ch could you post a pic of your J horn?
Also could you tell me how long the total path length of the J from mouth to throat?
Keep in mind one foot equals about one millisecond of delay that driver voice coils are not aligned. Some people are much more sensitive than others to the delay. Seems though once you know its there it is hard to go back.
Follow Ups:
Tell you what. Just email me through here. Ill send ya some pics of have of em. This will get too big otherwise. And more....
Well you got me thinking of what other alnico drivers I have on hand. Ill openly admit it... Im nuts.... Before my son came along part of every dollar I earned went to audio toys... Hey could have been worse and went to Enron ;)
Got a single JBL K-151 with original cone. Cool 18 just has the damn metal dome
Got a single TAD TL-1602 original cone ( yeah I know its bad when you forget you have this...)
A nice pair of Gauss 4580 15" I was really curious what your thoughts are on these... Seems they have a real love hate view on the net. In reading seems speaker exchange has recone kits too. They have a damn small xmax. I was almost skeptical if it were true. Then I saw this pic of the recone kit. Look at the height of that coil. Im guessing its true. Crazy to hear they had more power handling than their JBL counterpart of the day. The recone kit is paper dust cap. Wonder if these have potential of any kind.
Someone posted these parameters on soundweb some time ago. I assume they are right.
Gauss 4580
Voice Coil = 4 1/8"
On Axis Bandwidth = 35 - 2500Hz
Rated Power = 800
Sensitivity = 98
Highest Recomended Xs = 800 Hz
Displacement Xmax
Linear = +/- .090
Maximum = +/- .215
fs = 31 Hz
Qms = 2.3
Qes = 0.26
Qts = 0.23
Vas = 7.0
Re = 6.8
Baffle Opening
Front Load = 14"
Rear Load = 13 3/4"
Depth = 7 1/4"
Weight = 25 Pounds
I do have these JBL A130. And on lansing someone wrote the TS parameter is the same as a 2220. I certainly cant credibly say whats true. They sure look like a JBL 140 out of a heartsfield, but clearly are not the same. Paper caps and surrounds. These have doped surrounds. I think I may have a pair where the surrounds are bare paper... Again I know Im kinda sad... it could have been Enron! :)
I know I have a single D140F
Anyway just thought you might find some of this interesting.
Again email me and Ill send you off some photos of the J horns.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and input on my madness ;)
2ch, you are going to have to email me because your account is set up not to accept any email. Mine will accept email from registered members of AA such as yourself.
I don't want to put my email address on a post, ceramic magnet mafia might come after me....LOL...!
I tried shooting you and email earlier today. Through AA
Did it come your way?
Not yet, maybe it takes a day? try once more.
In the past I know I received emails. Im guessing some of it may have been from AA upgrades. I just reset my accept email from members.
I sent you a private email showing my email in the body.
Try me one more. Still didnt get one from you.
Will send you one more time from here
Thanks
1.Gauss- you got me there, I avoided all Gauss drivers at the reconer because the old guys hanging there at the time said they were tough and sounded like crap plus I never wanted to recone that double spider and mess it up. I want to tell you I have not tried every driver in the world, just as many key popular drivers I could get my hands on. Also remember even the dealer cost at the reconer for TAD and other high end drivers is still really high so I have not tried everything out there by any stretch of the imagination. Also remember I never had the money to buy a Ferrari at one time, only adding up the cost of all the drivers I tried over time would add up to about the cost of nice used Ferrari.
2.I think Hartsfield used a smooth cone 150 or something, I don't care for the Hartsfield it is a speaker that perpetuates the "all horns are colored myth" Like so many vintage JBL designs, Hartsfield has great drivers and terrible execution.
3.K151, now if you are using the driver in a folded bass horn below 300hz or so, the metal dustcap should not be audible, might even be a plus being so stiff. Sometimes you just have to try things out. I try not to ever use folded or bent horns above 120hz if possible personally.
4.Tl1602- great woofer for a direct radiator in a big box, as nice as it sounds it is still a direct radiator.
5.D,K 140 drivers all have ribbed cones, if not they have been reconed incorrectly.
You mentioned earlier correctly that the cone or diaphragm are important and I say yes, just because a driver has an alnico magnet does that mean it is a good driver. If it has an incorrect or cheap aftermarket cone it is gonna sound like crap no matter what.
I will say again you have quite a bit of stuff there that may be "all good" but maybe not all "great" or at least you don't really need a lot of it if you even forget you have it! lol...
General rule of thumb, heavy ribbed cones are not usually horn friendly. They might work ok in a horn sub for sound reinforcement but will probably be disappointing in a hi end horn audio system. SLowwwww sound is what I have found and the mass roll off for heavy cones is obviously at a very low fs because of the extra "mass".
Bruce Edgar's "Show Horn" article shows how to calculate the mass rolloff, etc.
Ok this JBL 130 vs 2220 confusion story should teach people to check your facts in several different places if you are getting your info off the web even on the same forum. Sorry 2 ch I thought the lansing heritage moderators were more on top of catching an error like that.
So again "type in jbl thiele/small parameters on a search engine" because you will find the factory published data sheets for most JBL drivers and it is very clear the data of a D130 and 2220 are radically different.
No the metal dustcap is not the only difference by a long shot.
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