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In Reply to: RE: Laments - January 1979 Audio Magazine posted by BigguyinATL on January 06, 2015 at 13:42:27
And, deeply in the audio business, working for a division of CBS [an audio retailer].
I remember the days very well, along with the audio aspirations of the day - both low and high.
Most people still spent lots of time and money listening to music on mid-fi Japanese audio systems - this was pre-video age.
In the average person's world, the focus was on the super powered receiver race - more watts per receiver. Pioneer SX-1980. Hundreds of transistor watts.
That, and making sure that the speakers you bought were 12" 3-ways.
Jensens and the Pioneer HPM-100's sold widely.
Before you get too dewey eyed, allow me to tell you that at the time, we all looked forward to progress. Vinyl records were universally disparaged as inadaquate, both by the high enders [The Absolute Sound, Stereophile], the mid-fi press [sort of, and oliquely - Stereo Review, High Fidelity, Audio Magazine], and every day people, who hated using a Diskwasher brush all the time; hated the pops and clicks that appeared anyway; and the inner grove distortion; and the inconvenience [and they flocked to cassettes once those took hold of the market in the 80s].
A tiny, tyny percentage of the huge baby boomers who had come of age and now had disposable income and independence were aware of high end audio and read The Absolute Sound.
The biggest audio problems of the day were:
*Figering out how to hook up the stereo system you just bought
*Blowing your woofers
*Blowing your tweeters
*Blowing your super powered Japanese receiver by having the positive and negative wires touch
*Getting enough bass and volume in your car system [pre-super powered car system days (Jensen Tri-axles were the king]
Other problems of the day were:
*Disco
*Sexual Herpes
*Ayatollah Khomeini, American hostiges and the impotence of the United States of America
*Inflation
*No lemon laws for cars
Follow Ups:
Working in a steel mill, buying audio gear.
Those 12-inch 3-ways were laughably bad, the receivers about as stable as Lindsey Lohan.
Lot of folks didn't even bother with mid-fi Japanese systems just bought something at Penney's that looked like Japanese mid-fi.
Every time I read a post where someone bitches about how nobody cares about sound quality anymore I just smile quietly to myself.
___
The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
In 79 I was in college, with a Sansui turntable, SS Scott receiver, and ADS L500 speakers. I was listening to the Who, the Beatles, Yes, CSNY, Grateful Dead, Dylan, Janis Joplin, Steppenwolf, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, and others along those lines, with a smattering of classical thrown in. I was very aware of high end equipment, but could not afford it. Then as it is now, it was more about the music for me. I knew how to properly operate my stereo, so blow woofers and tweeters were not a problem. I know not to cross the wires. I didn't have a car, but I really didn't need one in Philadelphia. So most of my problems centered around women, but they were good problems to have!
Dave
Vinyl records were universally disparaged as inadaquate, both by the high enders [The Absolute Sound, Stereophile]...
You must be thinking of TAS reviewers other than JWC or HP. I knew both at that time and clearly that was not their perspective. Both had huge vinyl libraries. When I would visit either, it wasn't just, I'd like to hear The Planets . It would be, "Which version on which label? I have five." Hearing vinyl on Harry's Goldmund T3 with Koetsu cartridge sounded pretty darn good to me through CJ electronics and the IRS. As a straight line arm, it didn't suffer from inner groove distortion (which is one reason I purchased a Souther TQ-1 in the early 80s). As for clicks and pops, the solution was using a RCM. Similarly, both started with KMAL machines and later moved to VPI models. I purchased my HW-16 in 1982 and have thirty year old records that remain pristine. Are you familiar with the Keith Monks or any of the VPI cleaning machines? They work.
While I find that 96 or 192/24 has bridged the gap in sound quality, the very best vinyl today can sound phenomenal with commensurate playback gear. Fast forward to my last visit to Sea Cliff a couple of years ago. HP was using the Clearaudio Statement, Goldfinger cartridge, VTL electronics, Nordost cabling and Scaena speakers. EMM Labs digital source. Simply breathtaking realism you just didn't find in 1979.
In 1979, I was using my first electrostats, a pair of the Acoustat X with a Frank Van Alstine modified Dyna PAT-5 and a turntable combination I still use today in the garage: Ariston RD-11s with SME 3009. I went through a number of cartridges and arms in that era, but I'm thinking I was using a Grace F9.
Your gear sounds really great. What're you doing here in vintage world, where guys extol the virtues of radio/TV consoles and Webcor phonographs?
You're right about HP's vinyl collection. But, I think you're missing a subtle point. HP, and everyone in the highend, hated the state of vinyl [until digital came along]. Without getting into a long discussion here, let's just say that the perspective on vinyl shifted almost over night in the early 80s.
I've got most of TAS from #4 on. The whole idea of HP's super disk list was a reaction to the crummy sound, recording philosophies [multi-mike, multi-trac], and bad surface quality, that were common during those days. HP came out with his super disk idea as combat against the common practices of big record companies. The whole idea of the list was to tell you which records, in a vast sea of mediocrity, were actually really great. Otherwise, if records were all commonly great, or even mostly great, the list would be unnessesary.
In TAS, EMI were constantly praised [and their Angel record counterparts panned]. I was so inculcated with that, that to this day, when I see a British EMI record, I reflexively feel I've just spotted something wonderous.
At about the same time, but not with the same emphasis at first, HP also extolled the virtues of Mercury. By issue #22, Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereo began to take center stage. The digital era, at first starting with digital vinyl in the early 80s [not CD's], hastened the desire for old, out of print Shaded Dogs and Mercury FR plums. At the same time, the proliferation of used record stores fascilitated the audiophile old record collector habit.
But, generally, we all decried the general state of vinyl. That's why the appearence of super disks, which had started early in the 70s with direct to disk recording on the label Sheffield, and ended with major companies such as Columbia and RCA releasing half-speed remasters of their catalog, were so embraced by a quality hungry market. The average record was perceived to be crap. Super disks were perceived to be [mostly, but always] super. Direct to disk records, though with sometimes questionable musical content, were the best sound we'd ever heard, short of live musicians.
What're you doing here in vintage world, where guys extol the virtues of radio/TV consoles and Webcor phonographs?Vintage is a relative term and the question as to what constitutes such has been discussed before. It seems the most common answer was 25 years. Using that yardstick, my garage system components (except of course for the Touch digital player) fall into that category. The turntable is one of the oldest possessions of any sort that I have having purchased it as a teenager.
I originally used double New Advents there and made a number of tweaks with assistance from other inmates like Bold Eagle. About two years ago, I found a deal on mid 80s Acoustat 1+1s, purchased and restored them.
HP came out with his super disk idea as combat against the common practices of big record companies.
It served another important reason: a reference by which others could compare his comments about various components. While many think his approach was that of a "golden eared" guru who passed down declarations of what was good to the masses, he truly believed that anyone could replicate what he did and make the same observations. While we may all agree as to what we hear, naturally individual preferences and priorities then take over. Of those two mentors, I was more closely aligned speaker wise with Dr. Cooledge who turned me onto the beauty of Dayton-Wright electrostats when I was 19. I have clear memories (and copies today) of several works that sealed my enthusiasm and love for the coherency of full range stats.
In TAS, EMI were constantly praised [and their Angel record counterparts panned].
The owner of a hi-fi shop I frequented (and later worked for part time in college) also loved EMI recordings and easily had a hundred or so. Like JWC, he filed them by pressing number ! Truly, those British pressings were of higher quality than most of the Angel versions. He also liked Deccas as well.
The digital era, at first starting with digital vinyl in the early 80s [not CD's], hastened the desire for old, out of print Shaded Dogs and Mercury FR plums.
Very true and for many reasons. If you recall, the pioneer with the digital recording process was Dr. Tom Stockham who developed the Soundstream recorder used by Telarc. Coincidentally. Jack Renner was very much a believer in the use of minimal miking. As audiophile and member of the board of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (and baritone in the chorus), Dr. Cooledge was involved with getting Telarc to record the ASO. I played a very minor role in the 1978 recording enjoying watching and hearing the process. I think Renner used only five microphones. Three up front and two ambience mics out in the hall. After each take, we would go downstairs while Shaw would review the sound and critique the results. Dr. Stockham was there supervising the use of his recorder. Since the AC was turned off during the sessions, Shaw carried a towel around his neck!
That's why the appearance of super disks, which had started early in the 70s with direct to disk recording on the label Sheffield, and ended with major companies such as Columbia and RCA releasing half-speed remasters of their catalog, were so embraced by a quality hungry market.
Oh, yes. I have quite a few Mobile Sound Fidelity pressings of various pop recordings that sounded much better than the original versions. Stan Ricker mastered them using a custom Studer tape system.
Direct to disk records, though with sometimes questionable musical content, were the best sound we'd ever heard, short of live musicians.
I have a couple of Sheffield disks and agree although most of the content was a bit dry. The Harry James disk being an exception. My wife's favorite is "Growing Up In Hollywood Town" with Amanda McBroom and in particular, the Amanda track. It is wonderfully dynamic and clean. I also have some Reference Recordings pressings in 45 RPM that are pretty darn good too. Don't laugh, but some of the cleanest, most dynamic vinyl I have is a series of 12" 45 RPM "dance" singles by Madonna. They were extended remixes lasting about ten minutes which seem to have no compression at all. Groove spacing is wide enough where you can easily count the grooves. Dynamics and punch are like direct-to-disk.
Sorry for the long ramblings. :)
Edits: 01/08/15 01/08/15
Friends with HP and JWC. Took part in Telarc recordings.
How many people can say that?
Most impressive. I hope that you'll find time to post recollections of your experiences, from time to time. It's valuable audio history, and it's all receding into the past. Since HP left no memoir, all of it may vanish into the mists of time.
after wandering into a new audio store in Atlanta when I was 17. The rest followed...
I had great mentors. :)
Yes, you are sooo right. I lusted for a click and pop remover - The KLH Burwen was reviewed is that specific issue. And all the problems you say were true - though as an audio enthusiast and a geek that had knowledge and no fear that brought me attention, and the attention of girls and dates! Ah.... the good old days! LOL. Married in 1982.
The "Big Receiver" push started in 1979 and made for mostly ugly and complicated face plates. Not the clean look of the "green light era".
This was also when the integrated Ampifier came of age - really good Japanese ones - Sansui AU919 (black! who would buy that?), Kenwood, Luxman, Accuphase, and of course Yamaha, Pioneer, Technics and others. These - and the receivers offered useful tone controls with variable "turnovers" and some mid-range "presence" controls as well. JVC offered reasonably placed 7 band equalizers - intelligent engineering design. Completely - or almost completely gone today.
Because we new the limitations on the source material - and rooms and loudspeakers, EQ was and is necessary - even today! DBX was there to address dynamic range issues in the source material and the recording process. dynamic range (Compressing in recordings) is an even bigger issue today. When was the last time an audiophile magazine reviewed devices or dsp processers that help these anomalies!
I yearn for the 3BX I sold in 1990 because cds "did away with the need" for dynamic expansion - that was until music was distributed online and listened to with ear buds!
I just dropped $500 on an Isotope software package that will give me live tick and pop and dynamic control over signals in my main system - even if it mean i'll have a PC in my rack!
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I spent a lot of time at audio stores, kinda on the outside looking in. Listened in when others auditioned gear; the decent salesmen noticed I was discreet, stayed out of the way, and didn't waste their time and they welcomed me. I'll always be grateful for that.
That said, most of it wasn't worth listening to. I was in the 'burbs so really good gear was really pretty thin, but most shops had bits and pieces that could add up to good sound.
there were some gear heads on the outer periphery of my circle of friends that got some VERY good sound from cheap (in 1979!) old beater tube gear and reel to reel. One guy even had some salvaged Altec theatre horns (popular for parties). They were a bit older and graduated to wrenching beater cars before I really learned anything from them, but it left a big impression.
I had Jensen triax's in my Chevy Impala. Stupid girlfriend cranked the volume all the way up and blew them.
Your mention of that brings back memories of 1973-1974 when I was living in a once grand apartment building in the city. The top floor (8th or 9th) apartment included a ballroom that was once occupied by a wealthy Jewish family (the whole building was upscale from the time it opened in 1918 until after the Great Depression).
By the early 1970s, the top floor apartment was occupied by college students who set up a pair of Altec Voice of the Theater speakers. I can't recall the electronics behind them but these guys had great dance parties up there. The sound, as you can guess, filled the entire room and then some.
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