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I posted this in speaker asylum and haven't yet gotten a direct answer to my question so I thought I would post here. Sorry for the double posting if you followed this in the other forum.
I have a pair of KLH Model 5s that are functioning perfectly. My stereo is mostly vintage stuff complete with vintage fussiness. I've decided to replace my components with modern ones as they fail rather than pursuing more vintage gear. I make enough money now that I could afford a $2-3K dollar pair of speakers or perhaps even more If I save longer. I like the KLHs very much and they function perfectly. They are my one piece of vintage gear with no vintage fussiness. I am a firm believer in "if it aint broke". But compared to modern speakers they aren't great with the soundstage and lack a little high end flare. Don't get me wrong though, they sound wonderful. They have great dynamics, articulation and tonal color. And the soundstage isn't bad, it is very good just not great compared to higher end speakers available today.
So could I get much more out of these speakers if I modernized what I could like putting modern components in the crossovers and replacing the terminals with a better material? Is the KLH Model 5 stock about as good as you are going to get out of those 50 year old speakers? I've already resealed the cloth surrounds.
Long question short: If I decide I am not happy with the sound and want to upgrade do I have options with these speakers or should I really look at something newish?
Thanks for your thoughts!
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
Follow Ups:
Just a couple of thoughts. Try moving the speakers. Changing anything in the system may require adjusting the speaker placement slightly. However, back then soundstage was not a well known or understood concept. Remember these were designed when mono was still a dominate system. Also, big speakers seem always soundstage challenged unless in large rooms, one reason why those little mini monitors seem to soundstage well.
You can add a "super tweeter" or an array to push the upper response out. Again back then not having upper response out to light speed helped because records and tape generally had a lot of high end hiss. Rolling it off helped here without losing the music. There were array addons back then such as Microacoustic and the JansZen I30. The JansZens when found today global for big bucks. Part of the reason is they are Art Janszen's famous electrostatics, 1 of the best tweeter design of all time. The Microacoustic array is 4 cone tweeters in a curved configuration. These can easily be duplicated today and with something like a good dome tweeter maybe even a simpler addon can be done.
I do not think changing the tweeter cap is going to help in the high frequency response as it effects the tweeter's low end response.
There are some realities we have to deal with when it comes to speakers. There has been a major shift in design goals over the decades and with each there have been improvements while also negatives. As a general proposition the emphasis on high end delivery to maximize source system improvements as to noise and hiss has been good if well executed. On the other hand small boxes limit bass and efficiency. What has become almost an accepted bass standard today would have been laughed at even in the '70s. It is interesting that a 60 hz low end is not knocked with speakers today while the Klipsch Heresy 50 hz low end is endlessly knocked as lacking bass.
It is a matter of personal tastes and opinion as to whether to go new or stay with vintage. With new, a subwoofer generally requiring an added amp gets around the limitations associated with newer designs while the tweeter addon solves the high end issue with vintage speakers.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
I hadn't thought about the super tweeter idea. Although the thing I miss most is the sound stage and not necessarily the super high end. Are there commercially available products or is it a DIY endeavor?
You are right about the base. I have a sub and use it. They other day I turned it off to incorporate a tuner and forgot to turn it back on. I listened to the tuner for a few days before going back to my records which I am more familiar with. When I did spin something I was familiar with I barely noticed the base was a little light. I figured I needed to turn the sub volume up a little. I was totally surprised when I saw that it wasn't even on!
Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
Not sure if there is anything currently available commercially today. You may want to look on the sale sites for Microacoustic they likely pop up and not a lot of money.
A DIY set should not be too difficult depending on how deep you want to get into it. As little as a tweeter, cap and either an Lpad or linear pot. The cap controls the frequency response to cross into the tweeter and the pad/pot the energy level. The Lpad presents a constant impedance load so, preferred. From there you can get into more complex crossover's. Years ago companies like Radio Shack offered tweeter kits comprised of the tweeter and cap. Not sure if some place like Parts Express has something similar. The DIY group may be of help or some in the speaker group.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Madisound has a few ribbon tweeters that would work nicely.
Dave
Redo the capacitors, leave the coils, metal film resistors.
Do you think that modification will bring these speakers to the level of what I could get in my price range for something newish?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Nate
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
They will be different. Whether they are better or worse will depend on what you like, but modern an vintage speakers have different attributes. I lot of the inmates here prefer the sound of vintage, and wouldn't use modern speakers if they were given to them. Others in the speaker asylum think that the vintage speakers are old junk.
My advise would be to update the KLH, give them a full audition, and then audition some new speakers.
Airtime gave you good advise about updating he speaker. I would add that you should reseal the surrounds. They don't break like foam surrounds but they become leaky. Do a search. Inmate Bold Eagle has the most experience and, IMO, the best solution. He re-sealed the surrounds with GE kitchen and bath silicone. You should get noticeable better base with this.
Other mods you could do are to put binding posts (not to expensive) and rewire (again, I would not throw big bucks into them). Lastly, you could also experiment with felt around the tweeter. I haven't tied it, but I suspect it would help with those sharp ridges.
They will perfume best with tube gear, but if you want to run them with a sand-amp,, Bold Eagle has a resistor trick that will make them sound their best.
Dave
I did the surround reseal back when I first got them, my dad has a pair of KLH 6s and was wise to that trick.
I love the way these speakers sound, I just really like completely invisible speakers with a very clear soundstage like magnepans. I don't really notice or care that they don't quite have the high end of modern speakers but I do miss the soundstage. I'm being very picky because these are really pretty good at that, just not as good.
I wouldn't mind going to tubes, I just don't know enough about them. I've often considered DIYing a Hagerman preamp but don't really know where to go for a power amp. I spose I have some homework to do. My preamp is a very fussy but wonderful sounding Yamaha C-4. Perhaps that should be my first stop.
You can't cheat an honest man, never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
Judicious use of felt under the grill cloth could help that imaging. Those are some of the most highly evolved cone tweeters in the business. If you want to really go hog-wild, you could put the tweeter in an external box, flip the speaker so it is woofer high and time align the tweeter. However, I am speaking totally on theoretical grounds. I have never done anything like this, and actually I think it would be a bit extreme.
For tubes, Asylum sponsor Uncle Ned has some nice updated Dynaco kits that don't need tubes made of unobtainium. (See link.)
Dave
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