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" This is an upscale vintage preamp I have taken a recent shine to..While I have rebuilt a couple LC21s and a three of these over the years,this is the first time this was undertaken with a mostly film cap power supply...The wima up in the corner is a 30uf and the grays ones are 35uf unlytic polys..The pyramid coupling caps that were in here originally were actually quite good but I like a little more focus and detail so a combo of K40s Solen film and tin foil as well as Mallorys were used..There are still more caps to be changed
which will be done but you don't have to change the center channel coupler or the tape monitor coupler if you don't use them.
Anyway,this preamp is very dynamic,very open,and has beautiful balance all thru the spectrum..The potential of these preamp seems to know no boundaries as I don't think I have ever heard one any more quiet than this..The signal to noise ratio after putting in good metal film plate resistors along with the film cap power supply and a pair 4700uf nichicons in the filament circuit does the trick..I like good film and foil caps where the voltage is low and the k40s where the voltage is 100v plus.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Edits: 08/17/14Follow Ups:
Michael, the first cap off the 6X4 should be a 10 ufd, correct? That is the cap recommendation for the 6X4, if I am understanding this correctly. Thanks!
I may go the film cap route in mine.
Dave
Is she for sale Mike, someone else's, or just one of many in your personal stable?
How does it compare with a HK Citation I, or a McIntosh C 20?
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
I haven't heard the scott. I have rebuilt about a million (well, maybe 50) Citation I preamps and two full rebuilds on Mac C-20 preamps. The Citation I is very neutral. Both the phono and linestage. The Mac is more colored, but it is a really nice color. You have to get the old bumblebee caps out of each though and put good film caps in most places and maybe a really nice oil cap or two in each for best sound in my opinion. I would say that I could happily live with either as the line stage, and although I like the Mac phono stage, I would prefer the Citation I because it is really accurate and the imaging and soundstage are first rate. But the C20 does have one of the best phono stages I have heard as well. It is just a bit warm sounding to me, but it is a really nice warm..... The C20's I rebuilt both had bad volume pots and the only modern replacement is the very expensive Gold Point stepped attenuator for the C20 (4 gangs). Put one in and it sounds very clean and clear. The Citation I is also improved by a good stepped attenuator and you can just barely fit the gold point in there as well. I do find the Scott integrated amps have very good phono stages and would expect their preamp to have a good one as well.
my 2 cents.....
Don
Thanks Don;
I have been promised a HK Citation II and a Audio Research SP 3 (a co-workers elderly father).
I know the deuce has a tremendous reputation, but I don't know about the SP 3.
If the SP 3 has less potential than the others, then I will probably sell it to finance something else.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Think of the SP3, especially the 3a1 version as what Saul Marantz would have done to improve and produce a tube successor to his Model 7 preamp. Problem with them is there are caps in the power supply that have no direct replacement requiring some modding to deal with. The preamp is so good a design ARC supported it and offered update services for years. The C update, I think their last was considered a step back, though.
There were some things about it I thought Bill could have done better such as stepped fixed resistor volume and tone controls and external ability to change the phono preamp loading.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Hi Brian,
I have never heard one but what you say about its relationship to the Marantz model 7 is the impression I get looking at the schematic. Also, other knowledgeable people hold that same opinion. For that reason, an SP3 is at the top of my lust list for tube preamps. The Model 7 would be quite nice, but it is highly unlikely that I would find one at a price I could afford. I might get lucky with an SP3, and it would not have to be win the lottery level luck!
Dave
It is not supposition. When I bought my SP3a1, I picked it up at the factory as there were a couple of little things I wanted done. I had spoken with Bill before buying about the mods and at the time he told me it was a rip of the 7 but revised to reflect experiences and engineering advances since then. He also mentioned he had discussed this with Saul and Saul while agreeing the new unit was worthy of his name as a successor he and Bill were miles apart in its execution. Bill said Saul thought the parts, controls, faceplate and other things were too cost reflected.
If anyone has one with an engraved brass plate, early Marantz knobs and an external cartridge loading provision and looks like it is some kind of Marantz (matching the Model 9s) rather than an ARC, guess whose unit you have.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
You only make me want one more!
Dave
The sp3 is no slouch and I am sure can be upgraded to sound better than stock. The Citation II is among the finest amps you will ever hear, but you have to rebuild it and do it correctly. There are a number of tweaks besides the standard McShane level II+ kits that kick it up about 20% to my ears and I have rebuilt over 60 of them. Let's just say that I have it down now:)
Exactly Don
The Citation is very correct when you use ESLs or Magnepans,it doesn't get any better..The Mc275 and Mc60s are like the Deuce but the C20 is a bit colored in a good way as you stated.I did put the Koa metal film resistors on the plates and they are quiet but it seems to lose of a bit of suppleness so I'm thinking the carbon film would make more sense as those are reasonably quiet and do have a bit more bandwidth overall..I just didn't want noise in the phono stage.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
Edits: 08/18/14 09/24/15
Stace
They are different for sure..The Citation preaamp isn't for everyone.The phono stage in the citation preamp is very correct in its sonic nature and you have to turn the volume up quite high depending on your amp and speakers.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
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