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Finally, done, completed. Not sure I succeeded or failed, guess time will tell.
Finally got the strength and energy to get rid of the poly caps that I installed a few years ago and put in some closely matched oil caps, glass encapsulated originally in some military test equipment according to the seller. Let the speakers run for about 36 hours before doing anything serious with them. The Wharfedale W70s as with many Wharfedale are very capacitor sensitive. The speakers were designed in the tube days and are not designed for high volume, high power, current unless you like replacing tweeters. Their tweeter, the SuperTweeter is a cone driver with a huge motor assembly and when performing right can run circles around most other tweeter in the sound but, do not forget out to light speed.
I had gone through quite a number of speakers and amp combinations over the past couple of months and had things sorted out, or so I thought. I started with those that because of their mating with other speakers were the keepers. Everyone of them disappointed save the Philips 785. This receiver was the best of the lot with the ADS L300s and acquitted itself quiet well with my Heresy IIs but, the bass with the HIIs was not as pronounced as with others, there but more in the background.
The much loved Sherwood SEL200, S3300 And S9500c all failed which is surprising as their tube units used to be a well loved combo back in the old days.
The Sony STR6045 and H-K 630 did better while the JVC J-RS301 did so bad it hurt. The little Sony ST5055, T1055 had a similar sound as the STR6045 but, had slightly better detail and balance. The Yamaha CA610II using the -6db direct option making it about a 12 watt amp, maybe Class A did very well, reminding me of some of the tube combos I had on my previously owned W70Ds years Ago. But, the dynamics and life was somewhat stripped out. However, in an apartment the combo might be the answer. I did not try either the Sony STR6120 or Philips 796 or 797. These Results big receivers and totally contrary to what my goal of physically downsizing was.
The Yamaha presents a problem for me. The speaker terminals are made such that I can not connect my Koss ESP9 wiring to it unless I cut off the terminators on the side harness, something I prefer not doing.
I finally pulled the Sony STR6120 and gave it a run. It showed just how good it really is. A home run except like the other Songs, it did not quite get the air, the balance right. The bass was good but a bit too pronounced. I could tame it pretty well the the fantastic bass tone control but, not quite. The high end lost some of the light air it is known for and was shown with the Yamaha. Overall, though, it trumped all but the Yamaha and Philips 785 that each had its own positives.
As the Sony now was the likely winner and now size was out the Window as a goal I pulled the Philips 797. After a day going back and forth the Philips 797 was the winner. It folded on the best of the Yamaha, Philips 785 and STR6120 with the Wharfedales and was tied with it on the Heresy IIs. For the first time in the years I have owned the Philips and Sony the tie was broken in favor of the Philips due to the Wharfedales. Right now I am listening to some classical through the FM and the violins are bang on. It has been too long but I seem to remember my KLH Nines with the Marantz 9s giving me the same response to the violins.
The final system will be the Philips 797 with both the Wharfedales W70s and the Klipsch Heresy IIz, Koss ESP9b, Thorens TD160, ADC XLM MK II Super , and a test to be determined dvd/cx player, like the Sony. As the Philips provides for 3 sets of speakers, I can have Another through the Koss box so, may add the ADS L300 into the mix.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Follow Ups:
It seems I may be getting back a set of KLH Fives I gave someone a couple of years ago.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
After settling on the main system, I went after the desk system, trying The Smaller Advent Loudspeakers against the ADS. As this is for a desk, while the Advents really aquitted themselves well, the ADS were a more logical choice. I had found the ADS previously did wonderfully with the small Philips 785 making a nice fairly small package. With both speakers it boiled down to more a total subjective response than anything else. The Philips, Yamaha, Sony, H-K and, Sherwoods all sound different with them but, not better or worse. Sitting on the shelf virtually never used is the Philips 796, physiclly as large as the 797, same layout and even the same printed circuit boards, just stuffed differently. It is 45 watts vs the 60 of the 797 so for me with the 30 watt 785 and the 797 it has been more an orphan than anything else. I decided though it is large to pull it and give it a shot. It does all the 785 does for the ADS but in almost every way a hair better. Just enough to pull ahead of the other amps. The Smaller Advents, like the originals has a bit of a bass bias that the 796 tames nicely without losing it. So, while it will remain with the ADS for the desk system for now, I have found it is my preference for the Advents (including the OLAs that I tried it with after), while the 785 gets the nod for the ADS as it makes for a smaller package with virtually no loss of sound quality.
So, it seems after years, the Philips finally outshone the others for my speakers, listening taste and room. A clean sweep.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Sometimes less turns out to be better Brian. All the years I spent looking for "better" and I had the stuff all along but I guess I had to run the course of audio nervosa to find out.
I went from an MC225, C-22, MR67, Altec Model 19 speakers, Thorens TD124 MK1 with SME 3009 S2 and about a dozen cartridges to a Scott 299A Integrated, Scott 333 Stereo tuner, TD125 Mk2 with SME 3009 S2 with an Audio Technica AT130E and EV Esquire 200 speakers.
The "lesser" combo just sounds more natural to me in many ways and it's more than enough for my modest size listening room size.
Hi Dave.
Interestingly enough, I have a TD-125 waiting for me to get to with an SME 3009 S2-Improved tonearm (removable headshell). I suspect it would be just the thing for a good MM cartridge (I happen to be very fond of MM cartridges.) Do I take it that you prefer the belt-drive TD-125 to the now, very popular idler hybrid TD-124? If so, what aspects of the sound do you prefer?
Dave
Dave,
I've used either a TD124 MK1 or MK2 for a long time but one other time I switched over to the TD125 MK2 I thought the sound was very much like the TD124's at a fraction of the cost. Then I put the TD124 back in because I have it.
When I switched setups, amp/preamp and speakers, I noticed that the sound was a bit thick in the lower registers yet the detail and snap was all there.
One night for the heck of it I swapped out the TD124 for the TD125. The TD125 has the same arm and cartridge that the TD124 had on it.
The sound was less thick and it retained the detail and snap.
I suspect the EV Esquire 200's are a bit bass thick due to the design and/or their current placement and that the SME and AT cartridge
just act differently in the TD125. (resonances)
I have yet to switch back to the TD124 because I wanted to get real used to the TD125 but I could certainly live with the TD125 very easily.
I'm tired of "tweaking" and spending money so changing plinths isn't in the cards for me. It's now, either it sounds good as is or it doesn't.
I will keep one TD124 though just in case.
In my case I also suspect that after 30 some odd years of listening to 7591 amp's with horns, I've fallen victim to the EL84 sound and the cone mids and horn tweeters in the Esquires. (7189A in the Scott 299A)
Having the two tables with the same arm puts you in a unique opportunity to compare. Your answer is what I suspected, that they are both excellent tables, and as always, preference is likely system dependent. I have an idler drive table (Rek-O-Kut), but it is so different from my belt drive tables, that it is hard to compare.
I still plan to get some tubes back in my system, but I will need to break out the soldering iron. My free time lately has been taken up by my home air conditioner. It is running now, but I need to check the ducts. It's a DIY life for me. I do my own work on just about everything!
Dave
For me it is was not trying to find better but how far I could go before it became too compromised. I have just rejigged the desk system to the ADS L300s with the Philips 796 and it is livable. I will stay with that knowing the 785 can do as well with those speakers and also both do well with the Klipsch HII. Other looks like I have the speakers and found the Philips receivers from my stash do well with them. I will likely sell off all the electronics save the Philips as well as all the speakers save the 3 mentioned as well as all my other stash. Then in the future I can make a decision as to the final choice.Listened to the new desk system a good bit of time today and have decided it will stay. Also, will be keeping the Philips 785 receiver and other than the Sherwood SEL-200, S3300s and S9500c as well as the Sony STR6120 and Yamaha CA/CT610II amp and tuner listed almost everything else on CL to clean house. My reluctance as to these items is as much just a personal reluctance as rationale one. I suspect in the end, these all will also be listed. I was hoping to have retained fewer pieces but, this is a step ahead, anyway.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Edits: 07/02/14
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