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In Reply to: RE: Dang! Thought I had it Figured Out posted by Brian Levy on May 24, 2014 at 09:47:19
Final decision is shown below. Ended up with what goes around, comes around. I started with the Sherwoods S9500c and S3300 amp and tuner and ended up these are the final puppies in the downsized (?) system. Truthfully it as a complete tossup between the Sony STR6120 and tge Sherwoods. For most persons, the Sony may have won but there were a couple of things that pushed it to #2. First is the physical size, just a huge unit and deeper and too wide to move into what may be the alternative cabinets in the future. Second, the amount of power is neither needed nor used. In fact for some reason the Sherwood seem to produce better dynamics with the ADS speakers. Third, if in the future repairs are needed, the Sony is a new BMW compared to the Sherwoods that are more built like a Model T; far more and esier to service. Fourth, the Sherwood has 2 aux inputs in the rear. The Sony has a 2nd but it is via a stereo 1/8" plug in the front. Fifth, and this is where it gets a bit more complicated. I found when playing the Klipsch, I tended t play them louder with the Sony than the Sherwood when trying to listen at low levels. The specs on both are very close and quite low as t distortion but as there are no graphs I can only speculate that as with many amps, the Sony at very low power has a rise in noise and distortion while it is at the same power lower in the Sherwood. With this trait, it is not uncommon for persons to listen at higher levels more in the lower distortion range but not realize it. Also, I found with a number of recordings the dynamics seemed better with the Sherwood on the Klipsch.I am talking very minimal differences and I could have made a case just as easily in favor of the Sony. I did find in the end it was even more difficult to push myself to listen to the system rather than the music with the Sherwoods than the Sony.
The end showed that each of the tested units would do well with both the Klipsch and ADS with a couple of surprises such as the Philips 785 amazing synergy with the ADS. This pairing would have won if the Klipsch were not in the competition. The Yamaha set makes for a nice easy listening pair as does the little Sony STR6045 while the sad little KLH 27 (that is a pun), while coming in last is still so close to the Sherwoods it was in the running until preference started swinging from the ADS to the Klipsch defeating the goal of making the smallest system I could.
The turntable is the TD160 with ADC XLM II Super and 'phones are Koss ESP9b. Sorry for the crappy photo.
Thanks guys, it has been a journey.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Edits: 06/01/14Follow Ups:
Hard to go wrong with Sherwood, but I'm still not clear on which speaker you settled on--is it the Heresy?
Currently, in the house it is the Heresys. When I finally move, depending on the size and layout the Hereys may be too large and then the ADS will be used there. Why one objective was to find a system where there was that balance with the speakers.
If one set had clearly outperformed the other in my opinion the electronics would have changed. If the Hereys, the the Sony STR6120 would be the "winner" and if the ADS, then the Philips 785.
The Sherwoods steered a good course between each combo to do very well with both speakers. Also, they fit in the Bozak utility cabinet that may be capable of keeping while the Barzilay, I can not envision making the move. The Philips also will fit. The Sony could fit on top but then I would not be able to lift the lid to get to the turntable so, in the final analysis in the long run the Sony is out for the Heresys as far as I can see and the Sherwoods in with a possibility the Philips may be subbed in if I finally have to use the ADS. A good thing about the Philips not mentioned is it has 2 tape system capability allowing 2 aux hi-lelvels inputs, a feature of the Sherwood so I can use the CD/DVD player and make a provision for another source such as .m3 or streaming from a computer.
While it may seem there is some doubt, it actually is I have decided on the roadmap based on what fork I have to take. These units will be off the selloff lists until that fork is reached and road taken. This was not possible before as to the selloffs in the short term.
To recap: off the short term selloff list:
Sony STR6120
Philips 785
Sherwood S9500c & S3300 (neither version that I have)
ADS L300
Klipsch HIIs
Oh, there is one unit that I have that did not enter into the contest. I have a Sherwood 7650 or, sort of have it. Some time ago my son er, borrowed it. From the past experience, it is a real contender. My son tried most of my units before taking, er, borrowing it. I mentioned at the beginning of this test that I wanted to take it and give it a shot in this round and his reply was simple and short. Why, would I do this as it just ain't ever gonna come back into my hands and maybe I should just go buy another. I had him briefly listen to some of my testing and each time mentioned in some why HIS Sherwood was better. In the fwiw deartment, he also, did not find a firm preference for either the HIIs or the ADS though he said if I went with the HIIs when I move, he is going to take (note he did not ask to have them) the ADS while he did not say the same if I kept the ADS as to his keeping the HIIs.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Yesterday I started pulling units I am not keeping and powering them up top see their current condition. I should not have and I REPEAT I SHOULD NOT HAVE.
One unit I do not mention often on the shelf is a H-K 630 receiver. In the past when on my Bozaks, Advents and others I have not been impressed with it as a receiver. Using it as a power amp was a horse of a different story. The preamp always bothered me and subbing in another as it has preamp outputs was what I usually did. I have in the past suggested to persons to look for the x30 series just for the amp. The tuner is decent, not great but can hold its own against many other tuners.
Oh, FWIW, the balance of what I have is out of the running though I have not mentioned any of them.
One thing I some years ago noticed was on the Klipsch website forum whenever a question arose as to what receiver to put on the older Klipsch speakers. I have not followed the group for years so, do not know if this is as true today.
My unit was bought from a gent, about my age, hence older. He had a set of KLH Six speaker and a Miracord 10H and said he bought the system new but had not used it for some years after his wife died and he moved into a 1 room retirement apt. He daid other than the "needle" being replaced on the player no work was ever done on the units. He had already sold the speakers and changer over the phone and was waiting for the buyers to come and get them. We did agree is either buy backed out I would be given 1s dibs. The only issue with it is the function lights. Some go on when some other function is selected. All the lights do work.
I popped it into place today and went to eat, letting it play on FM to settle in a bit. Now, this unit was not on my downsize list because I was trying to go small and did not want to start adding a preamp to the mix plus on the speakers previously used it did not stir my senses.
After lunch came down and started listening on the Heresys and oh, oh. Something was wrong in a major way! This was not the experience I had previously with the receiver. It was immediately apparent why the Klipsch fanatics liked these receivers so much. This is a 30 watts per channel rms FTC unit with a peak power of 60 watts per channel so, a lot of headroom. And, it shows it in spades. The Sherwood S9500c went from the keeper on the Klipsch to 2nd place. It sounds flat by comparison. Not clipping but seemingly to compress the music though not getting anywhere near 15 watts on peaks. Rating wise, there is only 10 watts rms difference between them. With the H-K at the same listening level, the peaks go so loud I am forced to play the speakers at a lower level to keep tham at the polite apartment levels I am shootiing for. There also is no breakup or stress these can easily show even with high powered amps.
Tried them with the ADS. Not so good. I suspect, the amp does not handle 4 ohm loads quite as well as what I experienced with The Smaller Advent Loudspeaker likewise was happening with the 4 ohm ADS. Bringing down the average listening level to quite low, things cleared up but still not quite as good as with the Sherwood S9500c and not even close to the Philips 785. Maybe with the outboard preamp it would do better but, I really think it is a speaker load issue. Again, though, with the ADS the dynamics were better than the Sherwood and even the Philips.
This now knocks off the little Sony TA-1055 and ST-5055 pair and furthers the Yamaha CA/CT610II pair from consideration but, not quite definitely out, just yet. The KLH is history unless size becomes a major issue as it is smaller than the H-K that is about the size of the Philips 785.
Looks like the list is narrowed down to the Philips 785, H-K 630, Sherwood S9500c (though think they are closer to falling off the list than any others, now) and Yamaha CA/CT610II. The list would not change at this time even if I were to change the criteria as to size being an issue to deal with. It is now getting to a poiint where matching system A to B for a system shootout will likely be taking place with the 630 and Klipsch going against the 785 and L300s. Then the Sherwoods on the ADS against the Yamahas on the Klipsch. At this stage I am fairly certain the final contest will be the H-K vs the Philips with their respective speakers. I think the Sherwoods as good as they are will make the cut and it is hard to imagine right now the Yamaha pair picking off either the H-K or Philips with either speaker mated to them, though who knows.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
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