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In Reply to: RE: Vintage Luxman Tube Gear [Ping: Interstage Tranny] posted by Plato65 on May 25, 2014 at 09:03:11
I recommend the CL-32 but it's a 100VAC in device; it needs a Variac stateside. It could be the one of the most dynamic, detailed yet sweet preamps. The CL-32 is a bit less sweet; but very worthy. I have not heard the CL-34 but isn't it a hybrid line stage ?
Lux amps can be very nice. Their 3045 was inspired by the McIntosh line. Lux trannies are extremely wide bandwidth. Sometimes, extreme bandwidth is not heard as sweet. Since your reference instrument is violin, upper high frequency bandwidth may not be needed. In fact, for sweetness, you actually might prefer lower bandwidth amps. For example, I know of some serious classical record collectors that insist their early 1930s Thordarson 2A3 amps are their end all be all. Since the trannies in those have little above 12KHz, combined with "bright" speakers, the result can be extremely charming. My own reference PP45 amps do not have the widest bandwidth opt trannies. When wider bandwidth opt trannies were used, these amps sounded more analytical; sounding less sweet and endearing than with simply "good" trannies. Again, better specs of a device do not always mean better sound.
Have you heard any PP triode amps with little or no feedback ? Chances are that after you hear them on your reference speakers, you might never want feedback in any amps again. Feedback EQ in preamps is a necessity for vintage discs, IMHO; but power amps tend to sound most transparent and "open" with little or no feedback...Of course, YMMV (Your mileage may vary).
Follow Ups:
Do you mean CL-30 is dynamic and CL-32 very worthy, or the other way? CL-34 was the next version of CL-32 with tone controls instead of the tilt feature and 8 tubes instead of 7.
Your thoughts on bandwidth & feedback have me thinking. I have a 300B SET amp that I really like, but am now looking for an amp for a different set-up. PP triode amps could be interesting.
What speakers do these collectors like with their Thordarson amps?
One collector chose Altec Voice Of The Theater with 802 tweets or his Altec 755A. Both of his speakers are definitely on the "bright" side...The other collector uses field coil woofers and various tweets at different times.
If you like the imagery/soundstage and naturalness of SET amps, you would certainly love the PP triode amps that use an interstage tranny to split the phase plus no neg feedback PP monoblocks. I use my moniker because interstage trannies have made such a difference to the sound in my systems. I get true holographic imagery, with a "reach in and touch the musicians" sensation along with speed and dynamics that are very impressive and very enjoyable. Finding dual mono amps like this that match will not be an easy search. I am still searching for certain interstage trannies that match some of my singles for almost three decades; in order to build more dual mono amps...
The amps I use have competed and won over pairs of Sun Radio CR-10, Brook 10 and 30 Watters, Thordarson 30 Watters, Peerless A-100 as well as other homebrews; playing through my Altec 16 Ohm Valencias. I used Brook 22 PP2A3 10W integrateds as my reference until I began rolling my own amps in the mid 1980s. At that time, my amp topology was 6J5 to UTC LS-19 to PP cathode biased 2A3s (or 6A3s, VT-52s, 6B4s...)to UTC LS-57 opt iron. These days, my topology is a bit more complicated with a DHT input tube (like 26 or 30) to cathode biased Globe 45, 1:1 IT coupled to PP Globe 45s in fixed bias to various opt iron. Even compared to my 845 SET amp, plus other homebrew SET amps I have built, I prefer the PP Triode amps.
If you must stay with feedback equipped amps, might I suggest you audition some EL84 amps ? Even Single Ended EL84s should have enough power to produce magic with your Tannoys or Dynacos...ENJOY !
Thanks! Very interesting. I'm going to leave out DIY amps at this point, so I need to go hunting for some of the other models you mentioned.
How do you like the Altec Valencias? I've been very curious about them, but have held back due to concerns that they might sound hard on violins.
Also, one pre+power combo or an integrated would be used in a home office with small speakers. Any recommendations for small units & speakers?
when I first read the original post, I thought of recommending PP DHT's
my speakers are just a bit less efficient than the Tannoy Monitor Gold, and I do just fine for classical with DIY PP 6B4G's (6.3v filament, octal base version of the 2A3). I would like a bit more power for rock, so I'm building PP 300b's - not that I don't like my amps, but because I'm in the mood to build...
My amps are interstage coupled, fixed bias, choke input power supply, no feedback. I have taken them to club meetings, they walk all over SE 300b amps on 93-95 efficient speakers. They give up very little "magic" to SE's, but give plenty of tight, controlled bass.
If you like large scale music (symphonic, big band) on moderately efficient speakers, zero feedback PP DHT's are an excellent choice.
Thanks! If we leave out DIY amps at this point, could you suggest some vintage models? Which speakers do you use, btw?
My speakers are very loosely based on JBL L300's. 93dB efficiency. BUT, I use Edgarhorn "salad bowl" tractrix horns on the 2420 driver. For me, the tractrix horns get it right from a "tonality" perspective; no shout, no stridency, no honk. The 136a woofers go deep with authority (at the price of some efficiency).
Vintage PP DHT's are tough; not that many out there. The Brook amps are highly regarded but recently have gone for stupid "collector" money, and you would need a good tech to go through it. I think Cary made (makes?) a PP 2A3. You might want to investigate getting a custom builder to make you an amp. Something like the Seth PP 2A3.
- "Something like the Seth PP 2A3."
I thought that 6C45's were pretty scarce nowadays.
Dave
Sovteks seem to be out there for $30 or so. The Seth was an example for suggestion, more or less.
I always use 5842/417A for my builds, though it is getting pricey too (especially non-Raytheon).
My mistake. When I did a search yesterday, all I saw was out of stock. I see The Tube Store and others have them.
Dave
I've had a number of other output tube types and I do have to say - those EL84's do grab me! That is not to say the others DO have excellent qualities.
I would say if you need power go up to a EL34. Otherwise for pure listening enjoyment - the 84 is a sweeeeeeeeettttt tube!
charles
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
The SET's are nice. I always preferred a more traditional tube. The have more humph were it counts.
charles
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