 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
108.95.36.204
What do you folks think of the early SS receivers? Just when the transition from tubes was beginning.
Like the Fisher 250 or 700, Scott 342, Sansui or Pioneer?
Sound quality good, hit or miss? Transistor technology too new at the time. Not executed well and should be avoided?
Best,
Dave
Follow Ups:
I am very familiar with vintage Scott solid state receivers. The 342 is a 15 Watt x 2 and sounds pretty good. I've noticed however, the 25 Watt x 2 344 seems to have deeper and better sounding bass then the 342 does. Now, the 342B is an 18 Watt x 2 and has very punchy bass unlike the original 342. I do have the LK-60 and LK-60B integrated amps which are the kit versions of the 260. The amp section in the 348 from what I can tell, is identical to the 260. The tuner section should be identical to the 312B later versions the 312C. The 260 is a sweet amp and rated at 30 Watts x 2. All these receivers use quasi-complementary output stages and have a very mellow sound to them. The later 342C, is a complementary amp, but also sounds quite good. :-) All vintage Scott solid state receivers have very sensitive tuners in them and are great for DX'ing.
I would recommend a 344 to start with and go from there. :-) The 344B may be easier to rework due to the tuner sections not being point to point. Both the 344 and 344B should sound identical as the amp sections appear to be the same. Only the very early 344s were point to point on the amp. The very early 344 lacks a balance switch on the front panel.
Hope this help!,
Mike
The Harman Kardon 330B has a ridiculously good preamp section for a low-end, early solid state receiver.
Marantz made a couple of very nice sounding early solid state pieces, too, including the 2220B and 2230.
The later solid state HK's where amazing. They were the default receiver if you wanted a step above mass-market but did not have a lot of money.
Dave
I hear the rap about "early transistor" sound but don't find it to be all that true. The units I have in my collection, like the Marantz 18, 19, 2270, sound pretty good to me and my ears are used to the SET's and Pass XA.5 class A ss in my main systems.
Logic tells me that if the first transistor units were horrible, they would have never replaced tubes but some units are better than others and the speaker you choose to mate them with will play a big part in your satisfaction.
I've since added a few Sansui's (G9000, 9090 and 9090DB) and one Pioneer SX-850 to the collection. I love them all and have been trouble free.
Do your research before you choose. Some are much better choices than others.
Oooooo! What beauties. Used to have the Eighteen.
Love the look of that Marantz one mug. I myself have a harmon Kardon 430 and 730. 730 is going for a look see and the 430 makes good music in my office.
Best,
Dave
...speakers (exact model not rememered, may have been 24s), made some really good music. If they had been able to go somewhat louder, I might have kept them together. Note on those KLHs; I have two pair with the same model number, one with screw terminal strips and one with RCA jacks. I believe the RCA-equipped one was part of a three-piece system that had a turntable/receiver mounted side-by-side in the same wood base and separate speakers.
Later Gator,
Dave
Obviousl there is very little more I can add to the postings below. However what I found was that the first generatation SS stereos had a unique sound. A grainy-ish, not very refined sound. Todays stereos, or even the later 70's polished up the sound. For lack of a better description!Also, and this was already mentioned, the engineers were still "learning" how to work with SS production and design. You have to remember these engineers learned on tubes, then went into the new field of SS.
But one thing is the first generation stereos were built like TANKS!!!! They were built in the old tube stereo style. Many point to point wiring, Big parts, thick chassis, over speced parts, etc....
These units are great to collect if you understand what's involved. Some of them really are works of vintage audio art. And always an eye pleaser in any collection. However, understand what you are getting into. Many people just have them to look at and not use or to complete a collection.
charles
Edits: 04/07/14
Not sure it is hit or miss other than the current condition. Between makes, designs and models there are hits and misses but if still working today, then a hit.
Some early ss units also transitioned to pcb using wave soldering such as the early Fisher units. These were a definite miss back then because the wave soldering technique was not well enough understood or advanced and helped kill US Fisher production with an almost unsustainable amount of warranty issues related to cold solder joints. If you have one today and it is working it may have been fixed or on the edge.
Likewise, early germanium transistors were prone to high failure rates, as much from less than optimal unit design as the inherent characteristics of the transistors and finding replacements today can be like finding a hen's tooth. Later transistors were more reliable as much because of better circuit designs and understanding of them such as speaker protection systems as the transistor, itself.
OTOH, some of the earliest designs I think were the high point in the looks and build department. For instance, the Fisher 600-T used a tube chassis and cast from and back plates and screws were not self-tapping but machine thread. Avery put all he had into this unit to assure it the best of anything he did. During that period it with the TFM-300 tuner, the TX-100, TX-300, and TFM-1000 were possible the best built and designed units of any maker eclipsing even Marantz and McIntosh. The later popular receivers such as the 500, 450, 250, etc. series were almost as good. Today, though the 600-T and its offspring from the period including the much coveted TFM-1000 are like a vintage car, not a daily driver though when online can still kick plenty of sand.
That said, somewhat later designs after engineers figured out how to make a ss circuit that generally are based on using silicon transistors are and still can be daily drivers; these usually date from the later '60s, say '67 on. Again it is hit or miss as to good or not but most of the recognized names put out at least competent units. The hardest part is cross referencing the transistors and seems to be light bulbs. Some are proponents of doing a full cap replacement while others simply replace those out of spec presenting issues, your call. Either can end up revoicing a unit. When I sent my daily drivers to the tech, my instructions were they were to be daily drivers and therefore do whatever was best to put them in that condition. In every case wholesale replacements was an option that the well respected tech decided against and every unit has been in either near constant use as a daily driver or online intermittently for more than 6-years with no problems.
If getting into the hobby, you should consider a number of things before taking the plunge including:
1) What is you goal within the hobby, building a system of a collection.
2) If a collection, look at the path and objective; key to a brand, specific spec or feature such as the power output or small chassis, Pioneer, units in production in 1967, hybrid tube-transistor, etc.
3) If a system, physical size, voicing, flexibility, etc.
4) In either case will you be step building buying and hopefully selling at a profit to invest in something closer to where you are going or, just going for the end result.
5) Are you interested in investing time, effort and money in doing some or all repairs, etc? If not find maybe 2 techs depending on your roadmap. For instance there is a local repair service I use for pieces that I am interested in keeping for some reason but not interested in enough to invest in other than assure it meets specs. The local service has a tech who likes to work on the older units in between things like microwave ovens. Then there are the techs who either have the years experience or have focused on repairing, restoring and rebuilding vintage units. This group is where to send the units you want to keep and willing to invest in. BTW, I have not found the former to be less expensive than the latter or vice versa so not a question of cost savings as logistics and ability to do a really good job. The former tech would not spend hours cross referencing some old transistor or necessarily know what make, series, etc. capacitor or resistor is better in some particular part of a circuit. If DIY, you can get a lot of help on this site about repairs but it can be a daunting task and in the beginning work on some throw aways.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Stu hit it right on the nose.The receivers such as the Fisher 700T were quite nice and the MAC1700 was also a charmer..It had a tube tuner but the amp and preamp was SS.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
the early (even mid-line) US soiled state :-) receivers -- Sherwood, Scott, Fisher -- tend to have very decent tuner sections in 'em.
all the best,
mrh
some sounded quite good, very good.
Still I avoid them because:
1. those older transistors are increasingly difficult if not impossible to source.
2. some transistors which are still being made use different technologies and while electrical compatible are constructed very differently.
3. The mid term models, say the late 70's, often use wire wrap techniques which drive me crazy as they corrode and need to be soldered over. One tip, use liquid flux and it is much easier to solder over.
4. you gotta change all the electrolytics which probably are all dry. That's a lot of work. Fine for the DIY guy not for repair shops (I'm a dealer). Especially if you do all this labor and something else craps out in a few weeks, which the consumer will inevitably blame on your work....
Just saying....but others may have had better experiences.
Post a Followup:
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
