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In Reply to: RE: late night Heath AS-10 pictorial posted by sober1 on February 27, 2014 at 22:23:59
Very nice! What Mikey said but don't throw the old what looks like a PIO cap away. It "may" sound better than all but high dollar modern polys. Remember I said "may".
ET
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ET
That may be a paper in wax csp and if that's the case,he should leave it be if it works..I just figured the cap was a 25uf electrolytic from what I could see and in that case a nice poly or a paper in oil would be great.Polys work fine in speakers because there is no DC present.
Honest amplification is better than 2nd order distortion anytime.
i'll lift a lead and read it w/ meter. it's a 3mfd wax, similar to a pile that I have in the basement that are considerably out of tolerance by as much as 25%.
the main issue I'm having is I placed them 3' from side and back walls with tweeters outboard and speakers toed a couple of degrees.......a spooky soundstage! not a lot of depth(actually neutral if anything) but scary width so me jumping to digging around in them is being put temporarily on hold while I enjoy them for awhile!
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Sober1, soundchaserkt66 was impressed by Jensen P15Qs recently. Glad you're enjoying your Heath AS-10's robust Jensen alnico tonality, also. Before rebuilding stock x-over, try a poly 4.7 uf on lower tweet, & 2.2 uf poly on upper tweet. Works wonders with Kabuki-countenanced Sansui speakers, so hopefully your Heath's auld-skool Jensens will sound just as delightful as those 'sui's Coral drivers. Have Mesa/Jensen P-10RIs replacing stock ESS Model 10 woofs, with 4.7 uf polys on replacement Motorola piezos which sound heavenly. 73s para Sactown.
interesting...........so I understand, try a 4.7mfd in series with first tweeter then 2.2mfd in series between tweeter 1 and tweeter 2?
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
No, sober 1. Put a 4.7 uf on the lower tweet, & a 2.2 uf on upper tweet. On Sansui's SP-2500, tweet control had provision for either 4.7 uf or 2.2 uf x-over eq. Decided to try 4.7 uf on lower tweet, & 2.2 uf on upper (whilst bypassing tweet control). Been sounding-n-working like proverbial charm past six years (thanks once again to Vintage Karma's Robisme for 2500s). Those Mesa/Jensen P-10RI's sound delightful with simple 4.7 uf x-overs on Motorola piezo tweets in ESS Model 10 cabs. A 2.2 uf on upper tweet should add a subtle treble sparkle to your Heath AS-10's alnico magic. 73s para Sactown.
you're talking paralleling the individual tweeters with these caps? and if so, what effect will this have on these already paralleled tweeters? now replacing the single 3MFD cap that is now in series with these paralleled tweeters with a 4.7 cap to first tweeter, then a 2.2 in series on positive lead between first and second tweeter makes more sense to me. Now we have changed the xo point to tweeters and created a xo point for the second tweeter from the previous paralleled tweeter xo point.
Or, do I have this ass-backwards?
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Correct, sober 1. You're replacing stock 3 uf with two separate caps with two different x-over points. Roughly 4,229 hz for 4.7 uf cap, & roughly 9,034 hz for 2.2 uf cap. Jensens have smooth bass-to-midrange tonal transition, and the 4.7 uf cap integrates tweet response near the Jensen's upper frequency range (which is usually around 5 khz; btw, Sansui's two-way AS-100 speakers use a single 4.7 uf x-over cap with their Coral alnico drivers). You'll get sparkle from the 2.2 uf cap on upper tweet. Changed 3.3 uf x-over caps in a pair of Cerwin Vegas to 4.7 uf, which are paired with 12" replacement Electro Voice Forces (stock Pyle Drivers were shot). EV Forces have a frequency response up to 7 khz, but stock CV tweets just sounded better with 4.7 uf x-over caps. This retired printer was raised as an efficiency fiend, with a guitar-slinger's "get thy tone from thy amp" mind-set. Your Heaths already sound exquisite as is; merely suggesting a little tonal sweetening of their alnico magic. Try modding one speaker & compare it to stock. Difference should be quite an ear opener. 73s para Sactown!!!
will do, though it might take a couple of days once I get some caps. cap type/brand suggestions?
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Dayton Audio 1% PMPC polyprops should suffice, sober 1, & you can conveniently order them through Amazon. If you'd like some auld-skool sparkle, try NTE metal films. Either way, your Heaths will sound as beautiful as they look. 73s para Sactown.
I think I will give the film caps a go. Thanks man.
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Yes my goof, paper in wax. I too use polys for speakers but sometmes the old ones sound as good or better than cheaper polys. I'm with you, not second guessing what you say. I do check them with a meter to make sure they are still in the ballpark.
ET
You were wise to bring that out and I don't consider it second guessing.We are all here to help each other and you did the right thing.
Honest amplification is better than 2nd order distortion anytime.
unless a component is hard bad I rarely toss parts as my work bench dump pile will attest to!
I was looking at the PE catalog after posting last night looking at caps, resistors and pots and a cap bypass question came to mind bearing in mind this would be the 1st xo I've bypassed. And that is, if I want to place a bypass cap into the xo should I make equivalent adjustments to cap values so tweeters see the original design value, correct?I'm actually surprised by how good these tweeters sound. I really like Atomic Rooster's "in the hearing of" for tweeter evaluations and I like what I hear. Not great, but not too shabby either! Definitely we could have a short term relationship though.
In keeping with original design, any pot recommendations[insert your own funny here]?
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Looking at the crossover, it looks like the pot is being used as a rheostat, not an 'L' pad. It adjusts the tweeter level by inserting more and more resistance in series with the tweeter, and of course, that also shifts the 'crossover' frequency a lot, as well. With that in mind, I don't think adding a small bypass cap will need any value compensation (the original cap is probably at least 10% tolerance, anyway).
but is my assessment correct in that if oem is 3mfd and I want to bypass staying true to original I'd use a 2.7 plus bypass of .3?
these rheostats should probably be replaced given they're approximately 50 years old. I figure I'd just build replacement XOs and use them externally.
"the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
I buy Mills resistors from Sonicraft and find there prices and shipping lower than most others. They also run a 20% off annually. This sale is on now.
ET
I bought Huntingtons from Digikey and those are pretty good as well..I hear you on Sonic craft..Excellent products and prices.
Honest amplification is better than 2nd order distortion anytime.
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