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In Reply to: RE: Welcome and congrats on finding some nice vintage kit........ posted by viridian on February 26, 2014 at 12:51:15
Thanks for the warm welcome, i appreciate it. Id would like to maybe not spend more than say 300$ max for speakers and turntable, i also don't know if my equipment works they are quite dusty and i have no cables to connect any of the equipment together. So some of the money might have to go towards cables and repairs things like that. Also I'm not quite sure what your are talking about with phono cartridge and magnet. I'm really new to this maybe if you could tell me these things in lamest terms till i get used to these terms and learn what they mean. And ill definitely look into picking up a few copies of the magazine to read up on. As for buying new or used i don't really mind, as long as i don't put a system together with pieces that don't compliment each other or work against each other. Summer will be here soon and garage and yard sales will be in full swing here every weekend, in my local area.
Follow Ups:
Now that is music to my ears. Here is my suggestion, though there are many ways to skin this cat. There are fine turntables out there at yard sales and thrift stores. Most actually work. Ditto with speakers. Yes, you will be taking a small chance, but most things can be fixed.The turntable thing is pretty simple. The less automation, the better, try to avoid turntables with those long 6" spindles where you can stack records.
Judge the turntable as you would any tool. Does it have good weight? Is it nicely manufactured? Does the arm move smoothly and freely? If anything looks cheaply made with a plastic base, pass. Look for name brands, Dual, Pioneer, JVC, Sansui, Thorens, Technics, etc. But if you see something has nice weight and is clearly well built don't pass just because you don't know the brand name. They all made both very nice turntables and absolute crap so make sure that what you are buying is nicely built. Google p-mount cartridges, you do not want a turntable with a p-mount cartridge.
There are two basic types of drive systems that you will probably see out there, direct drive, where the platter is hard mounted to the spindle of the motor, and belt drive where the motor drives a belt which, in turn, drives the platter. Neither is really preferable though there are those that will like one or the other. If a belt drive, you may have to replace the belt, which will not be a big deal. Budget $25.00 for this and you will have money left over for beer.
Then you will have to buy a cartridge. It is best to start with a new cartridge as an old one can wear out your records. When you get your turntable, post the make and model number here and you will get some advice on how to set it up properly. Do not play records on it until it is well set-up, this can wear the cartridge and/or your records. Audio Technica makes a nice cartridge for $50.00, the AT95E, but there are other fine choices. I don't think you will be paying less though.
On to speakers. Really same deal. Do a little net research, judge by weight and quality of construction and always take off the grill. Many older speakers had foam around the woofers - that's the big speaker inside the cabinet - and this foam can deteriorate or crack. It's probably best to avoid a speaker with this problem, but if you get one for free, it is possible to have the woofers refoamed or even do it yourself with a kit from ebay, though this is a little harder than it looks. But best to get a speaker that is ready to roll without too much work. Again, learn a little about name brands.
If you went to buy a chair, you would have no trouble in telling a cheaply made chair from a finely crafted chair. Trust your instincts and make the same judgements about a turntable or speaker. If you are ready to give up, below is a link to some quite serviceable new speakers for only $40.00 per pair that will work well with your amp.
To start with you will need some basic cables to determine if everything works, just get some at Goodwill or Radio Shack, for speaker wire you can use any wire that is handy such as electrical wire, also known as "lamp cord". Don't worry, soon enough you will be buying $1000.00 wires made by a blind Chinese monk in exile in Tibet. It will all come too soon.
BTW, what town are you in; someone here may be able to help you out?
Edits: 02/26/14 02/26/14
shopped without me. She's brought home two fantastic pieces of gear, a Thorens TD 166 with Sumiko Pearl cartridge, $25, and AR 94 speakers, built like a tank and weighing about as much, $25. If the Op abides by your suggestions he'll be in fine shape come spring.
--------------------------
"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Edits: 02/27/14
You have given him very good advice, with one exception. Towards the end of the 1st turntable era, Technics came out with some very good quality P-Mount turntables. When you find these in thrift stores, the build quality is obvious. They made quite a bit of them, so they are easy to find and are usually dirt cheap when you find them. Throw on and Sure, Audio Technica, Ortofon or Grado and you will have great sound for cheap. I am partial to Shure. They are also rock-simple to set up. On lots of them, you can upgrade to a better stylus. My favorite stylus tip is a nude elliptical.
Dave
......but because I believe that P mount cartridges limit one's cartridge choice in todays world. I think this is a personal thing and I had no intention of denigrating all P mount tables.
Yes, they do at the higher end of the price scale. In the $100 range and below, it is comparable. My advise is for entry level. Also, the less you spend on hardware, the more you can spend on software.
Dave
nt
So I've been looking at some used turntables online and found a Technics Sl-23, for 125$ has no cartridge or needle. Not sure if this is a good deal. And also do i need a receiver for my system? And for speakers I'm really considering buying the pioneer sp-bs22 speakers, read some great reviews on them. And would the speakers and turntable work with my amp pioneer SA-740?
be in business. Good to go. The Technics will certainly work, you will just have to buy, and install, a phono cartridge.
As far as the Pioneer speakers go, they are compatible with your amp, so that is not a problem. However, if you listen in a large room, or at high volumes, or have an appetite for death metal, you might look for something with a bit more reach and slam. They're cheap enough to buy a pair and find out. Good luck with the hunt.
In reading reviews, it is important that the reviewer is listening to music that you listen to, at the volumes that you listen at, with gear of approximately the same power rating or less, than what you have. There's not much value otherwise, it's just a popularity contest.
I mainly listen to classic rock, rock, metal, and folklore and stuff like that. This will just be a side system next to main which I mostly use for my digital music since I have no Viynles yet but that will change soon. I don't usually listen to the music to load.
but that doesn't mean you can't keep your eyes out for some nice vintage speakers as well when garage sale season starts; it is a hobby, after all.
So i just wanted to give you guys an update on my quest to set up my first vinyl system. I did some more searching and i ended up finding a cheaper technics SL-23 for $90 in great condition and it also included a cartridge. So I'm feeling confident on that purchase. So after buying the turntable i decided to go to the local Stereo store to see what they can offer for speakers. I walked in and asked for some advice on 2 channel bookshelf speakers, i ended up listening to some Totem Rainmakers and Mites and some Boston acoustics. And man did the rainmakers sound amazing after comparing the 3 different speakers. But i couldn't justify 1000$ for just a pair of speakers unless i decided to get a receiver that would work for my whole tv and surround sound system and my digital music, paired with a phono pre amp for my turntable. But I'm not in need of all that yet. I was offered financing and all but i wasnt ready. I did ask about the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers and he said that they really weren't meant for 2 channel and they were more for surround sound systems, so i didn't press more about listening to them. I wish i did now as I'm composing this post. so ill go back and ask to listen to them. Any ways just wanted to give you guys an update on my quest. ill be bringing my vintage amp, tuner, and turntable and cd player to my local shop to get cleaned up and serviced tomorrow. Thanks all Dan.
no where do they say that the speaker is designed for surround sound, portable use, propping the door open or attracting beings from other planets. Please see below:
Thanks viridian for clearing that up. Now my only question is, since these pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers can take a maximum of 80 watts, would my amp be able to play these speakers properly? here are the specs i was able to find for my amp.
Pioneer SA-740
Power output: 40 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz
Speaker load impedance: 6Ω to 16Ω
Dimensions: 420 x 290 x 100mm
Weight: 5.6kg
Year: 1983
to me i think that my amp isn't powerful enough to play these speakers to there full potential but in not to sure thats why i felt safe asking here.
of the speakers. 1db being approximately the lowest change in volume that one can easily hear. So it's not that much. The limiting thing is the 4" woofer. I've had midrange drivers in my speakers bigger than that. It's a matter of personal taste and the size of your room and musical preferences. But the amp will easily push those speakers.
And a shout out to Mark, who gave you great advice to change the stylus on your cartridge.
Thank you for that bit of info. And that is a relief to know that I don't have to go out and spend more money on another amp. Once I get my gear back from the repair shop,(hopefully Saturday) I'll go back and request that salesman go plug in the speakers I'm interested in and not something I don't want lol. I'll keep you guys updated on my process. I find my self glued to my laptop reading all kinds of audiophile forums and magazines and also YouTube since my first post here, you guys weren't kidding about this addictive hobby. I'm allready making a list of things to look out for this spring when the yard sales start lol.
you'll be friendless, broke, overweight, and bald before you know it. Better to take up a healthy hobby like anonymous, unprotected sex, recreational drugs, or internet gambling. I hear that speculating on Bitcoin can get you at least part of the way. Good luck.BTW, why not take your amp into the hi-fi shop (you'll be homeless soon enough anyway) so that you can hear if it works nicely with the Pios? Or perhaps they could loan you the speaker on the day of the week that they are closed, with a full credit card deposit, of course.
Edits: 03/04/14
Haha I don't think I'll get to that point. But thanks for the heads up.
Hi Pojack, hey where's Crocka.....I hope that turntable works out for you, the Technics SL-23. Just remember,no one puts a brand new, real cool cartridge on a 100 dollar turntable. The stylus will probably be worn out, and if you respect your new vinyl like I have all my life,you will want to buy a new cartridge to protect your collection.Unless you put your fingers on the record and make that scratchy sound heard at the Montreal discos. The care, condition, and proper setup of the turntable made music fun, when cd's came about it was too easy....but I know you have an ear for music, that's why your quest for vinyl. Your enthusiasm has got me ready to finally buy a cartridge and have fun listening to music again, I have missed it. Before I sign off,look up Telly Savalas or (Kojack) on Google or any search engine and you will understand my stupid jokes. Let me know about the SL-23,I have the SL-20, but as I have stated,if you (hit the rack) your needle wears down all night.With the SL-23 it shuts off automatically,a great feature even for the purists, the people who want the least or minimal controls.Take care Pojack...Mark Korda
Hi Pojack, were you ever a bald chief of police who liked Tootsie pops? Well, I went on You Tube and there are videos explaining the Technics SL-23 turntable, even 1 that showed how to restore one. Anything you can think of, even stereo stuff is on there. Try looking tonight before venturing out in the frozen tundra....Mark Korda
Hi Pojack, you stated that you have a tuner. A receiver is an amp,preamp,and tuner all in one chassis, so you don't need a receiver. The Technics Sl-23 is one of my favorite vintage turntables but 125.00 might be a little steep,thats what they cost brand new. If it's mint,it might be a good deal. Grado, Audio Technica,and Ortofon all make a good cartridge,with needle for under a 100 bucks.....Mark K.
Hi Pojack, Crazy Dave is right on. Before p-mount cartridges came out, which was like late 70's to 1983 when Micheal Jacksons (Thriller) came out and pushed in the cd era,I'm sure p-mounts were still being produced after but in smaller numbers. There were some really good budget turntables that were built like tanks.The year I saw them all was when my freshman year at college 75/76. They had belt drives which belts claimed to absorb some of the vibrations that direct drives could introduce.Others will argue that direct drive is better, but look at the most exspensive turntables in the latest audio mags and most have belts. You can find them on e-bay for less than 100 bucks. These belt driven budget built like tank turntables were exiled to owners closets when cd's took over. Most of the owners who refind vinyl might have a 1000 bucks to buy a Rega-3 or a VPI Traveler. I have a Technics SL-20 I bought used in 77 and it still works perfectly. I'm going to get a Grado cartridge and get my records out of my closet and have fun again. The turntable is belt driven and I've seen every part needed on ebay,even new dust covers.The Technics SL-23 was better if you are a party guy, it had auto cueing and return in case you went nighty nite before the record finished saving stylus wear. Back then the turntables I'm going to list were about 100 dollars. About 250 dollars will buy you the same quality,new,today. The Music Hall turntables for example. For the amount you have to spend I would recommend scanning ebay every day looking for(Technics SL-20,23,Pioneer PL-112D,PL115D(auto return),Sansui SR222,Kenwood KP 1022). If you find one get a new cartridge and look at the new Pioneer speakers,not much over 100 dollars a pair that are getting rave reviews,the SP BS-22. Stereophile and the Absolute Sound love them, Best Buy. PS.A long time ago I went with skiing at Mt. Sutton in Quebec.Is that anywhere near you? And hows the cold? I live in Portland Me,it's bad,but nothing like Wisconsin,Minneapolis....take care and try some turntable hunting.....Mark Korda
I live in Gatineau, Quebec (canada) ten minute drive to Ottawa the nations capital. So with the information you gave me ill do a little bit of research and look up the brands you gave me and try to familiarize them and ill do some research on locations here in the area that sell this type of equipment. also look on the online classifieds. Thanks to all the info and ill get back to you guys shortly with more info and questions if i have any. Thank you.
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