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75.45.77.11
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Any list that does not include Accuphase cannot be taken seriously!
No Luxman?
Te list they came up with contains plenty of mighty fine gear, but some of them I would not call 'significant'. Cool thread, though.
Dick Olsher lists GAS Ampzilla II
nt
Robert Greene mentioned it in his top 10.
Maybe even the little Sonic Tripath should be on the list. Though digital is still in its infancy, I think its a sign of things to come.
I would have put a Yamaha or Sony on there.
I don't think the American audiophile press gave the VFET amps much attention, but they should have. Also, it was a dead end! I notices that Nelson Pass at PassDIY is working with something similar.
Dave
I have to go to bed; but I'll stay up long enough to comment on this.
Where is the Williamson? Amplifiers didn't start in the 60's or 70's.
Also note that the list is 10 most SIGNIFICANT, not the 10 best sounding. To me, significant means setting standards for the future, game changers, and/or ones that changed perceptions.
I agree with the Stereo 70 for it's sales volume and because it was stereo and good sounding.
The first Ultralinear circuit was a game changer. Not sure what amp it was in, but certainly significant in its influence.
How about the McIntosh MC30? First of the line. Isn't that significant?
How about E. H. Scott's triamplified systems?
The first good sounding and reliable solid state amp has to make the list. The Citation? The Macs? Marantz 250 or 500? How about Quad or Naim?
One of the Krells needs to be there, or maybe a Bryston, or maybe a Phase Linear 700. But only one to be the standard bearer for big power.
The very first NAD has to be on the list. It really was a game changer.
Would I add the Futterman? No, it really didn't set any large scale trends or change the direction of high fidelity much at all.
Think significance. not necessarily popular or good sounding.
Jerry
Valin is mistaken....no such thing as a HK Citation 2 monoblock.
I am surprised that Heathkit was only listed once. They did more to popularize high fidelity than just about any other company. This list is not complete without the inclusion of a Heath W-3-4-5 series amp.
Best,
Ross
They miss the JBL SA-600 with the famous "T" circuit. This was the first solid state amp that was had a "DC" output. That is, it had no output transformers or capacitors. It was the breakthrough technology that opened the door to all of the solid state amps that followed. I have its big brother, the SA-660 and the build quality is amazing. The 600 could also be called the first high-end solid state amp!
Dave
Dave,
I had an SA600 with that beautiful lavender anodizing. I loved the build quality but it had constant reliability issues especially with DC offset. I was using Lancer 99's at the time and JBL replaced a pair of LE14's with no questions asked when I told them they were used with an SA600. My dealer called the SA660 an SA600 that worked : <} ah, memories!
I had Lancer 77's for quite a while then I gave them to my brother-in-law. They did not do all of the audiophile things but they just sounded good! I really enjoyed my time with them. My brother-in-law loves them! The woodwork on then was beautiful too!
Dave
I really was hoping to get this beauty working! Maybe it is not in the cards.
Dave
Dave,
Don't get me wrong I only wish you the best if you have an SA660/600 to re-build. It is a magnificent industrial design (by Bart Locanthi more well known for his JBL and Pioneer HPM speaker designs) with breakthrough circuitry for it's time. See below for a coupls of links that may be of help. The Dutch gentlemans restoration was truly a labor of love. Again good luck and let us know how it turns out.
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/.../tcir/tcir.pdf
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?15522-JBL-SA-600-total-restoration
Oh and I recently purchased another pair of L99's to relive my audio childhood so you can go back!
Regards, Jerry
Oops, correction the SA600 was silver anodized the SA660 had the blueish/purple color. I went back and looked at some old spec sheets after posting.
Beautiful amp. Sounded nice when it worked.
Interesting read. Sure, given only 10 choices to cover all amps of all types..no way anyone would agree. I see the Citation II made two lists. Although the second reference to it has a picture of the modern mono block copies and references it as a mono 60 watt amp. I wonder if he ever heard one or knows anything about them or is just writing copy....who is Harry Pearson? Either he knows nothing of the Citation II or he is seriously confused...
Still a fun read from most of the other reviewers....
don
and was mistaken as you suggested concerning the Cit II being a mono amp like the Dyna MKIII, Marantz 9, et.al. The pic, however, does show the original three transformer stereo version. Fifty year old amps are popular with the vintage folks and those who modify them with modern parts, but most reviewers moved on to better sounding designs in the 70s with gear by Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Jadis, etc.
rw
Fifty year old amps are popular with the vintage folks and those who modify them with modern parts, but most reviewers moved on to better sounding designs in the 70s with gear by Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Jadis, etc.
Better sounding designs? By who's standards?The three amps you mention have tons of solid state regulation to the point where they have shed the purist tube demeanor,and taken on the characteristics of the more prevalent solid state designs.
The VTL you use,are of the purist vintage design and they don't stuff tons of sand regulation in those amps and they sound very good.They also are point to point wiring,at least the ones I have worked with,as are the quicksilvers.
Diversity of opinions on any one technical subject,almost always causes confusion for the listener.
Edits: 04/14/11
an ARC D-79 or a Conrad-Johnson Premier One over a stock 1960 Cit 2 any day. You'll find that the D-79 has tube regulation. Look here . To each his own.
rw
Well, the first time it makes a list the picture is correct. However, the second time it makes an appearance on page 7 they show a photo of the VAS mono block copies which I have no doubt cannot touch the original when properly rebuilt. That is what tweaked me is that he said it was mono blocks and showed a photo of the VAS citation II mono blocks. They are probably OK, but I seriously doubt they can carry a McShaned Citation II's lunch.......and I was wondering if the person who wrote the copy had ever even heard a Citation II let alone seen one.....
cheers,
Don
... he said it was mono blocks and showed a photo of the VAS citation II mono blocks.
The content writers don't provide the graphics to the stories. The accuracy or inaccuracy of those photos that accompanied the text (mostly stock?) was determined by others - most likely finding internet content for the 50 year old stuff.
...and I was wondering if the person who wrote the copy had ever even heard a Citation II let alone seen one...
Your confusion is understandable.
rw
Thanks. That's kind of a sad commentary on authorship. I have a PhD in my non-vintage amp repair life. When I write something for publication I am responsible for checking the entire content. One would hope that would extend to magazine or internet publishing, but I guess I am being a bit too hard on it.... thanks. I don't really care what their opinion on the 10 best or most influential amps would be...none of us would agree, and that is how life should be. I would just hope they would get it right when they talk about a particular piece...
don
which is now Harley's job.
rw
"but most reviewers moved on to better sounding designs in the 70s with gear by Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Jadis, etc."
In good repair, a H/K Cit. 2 SLAYS the brands mentioned. It's a fact that the quality of the magnetics used makes or breaks a tube amp. The "iron" used in the "Deuce" is among the very best ever manufactured.
IMO/IME, reviewers let price tags, rather than performance, influence them. Conflict of interest and (perhaps) corruption also are in play.
Use your own ears!
Eli D.
and find that parts like diodes, signal capacitors and power supply stiffness also make a difference. Which is why guys like Jim McShane stay in business.
So, tell me of the systems where you've heard the Cit 2 slay current ARC, VTL, Joule Electra, Atma-Sphere, etc. amps.
rw
You KNOW my "Deuce" has been "McShaned". :> D I'm not alone in my opinion about the Cit. 2, but "Proud Papa Syndrome" is certainly a possibility.
The Cit. 2's designer, Stu Hegeman, was a genius. When you add today's better passive parts, along with the superior "iron" and excellent design already present, the result is wow .
Eli D.
When you add today's better passive parts, along with the superior "iron" and excellent design already present, the result is wow.that "modernized" versions aren't better than the fifty year old originals cited by TAS - as the updates focus on the limitations. It all depends upon your points of reference.
rw
Edits: 04/13/11
... and its guiding light since inception
Here is my $.02 on their lists -
The Dynaco - ST70 - a no brainer.
The Phase Linear - 400/700 - a no brainer.
Marantz 8/8b/9 - at least one should be on the list (8 or 8b Imo).
Caver Silver Seven - should be on the list.
Heathkit - the W-series should be on the list (the 5, Imo).
Harman Kardon - Citation II should be on the list
Nad 3220 - This guy seem in over his head, but it was/is such a perfect little int. amp. YES, I still have mine!
Audio Research - Conrad Johnson - McIntosh - Levinson - Quad - Curl - Pass - Futterman - Scott - Fisher, the list is long and strong.
Plus, Imo, HH Scott & A. Fisher gave hi end audio to the masses, yet I place none of their amps in my top ten but I have own and still own them. If you wanted top ten COMPANIES, they would both make it, easy.
The list of "top 10" will never please everyone and at times, it will please no one.
Make your own and that is that.
music has the power to make you happy
I am unclear about how they are calculating significance. I would have included the WE 91 and the Futterman amplifiers for their inspiration to many later designs. In transistors, what about the HK Citation 12 or Dynaco Stereo 400?
David
I was looking at those lists last night. It's a little disconcerting to see that only REG seems to understand that hifi even existed prior to 1960.
Oh well, I guess I should just be happy that there is any mention at all of classic equipment in TAS.
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