|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
108.235.157.25
I can solder with the best of them, build cabinets, metalwork, and almost anything else that has to do with DIY electronics... except the electronics part. My brain has a wooden block where the copper wire part should go. To this day, I still have to check to wire something in parallel or series. So...I will try to explain as much as possible.
In this picture you see the power supply I made from the Boozhound kit. The transformer is the one he recommends. Primary is blue, grey, violet and brown. Secondary is black red orange and yellow (I Love You).
According to the literture, for input connections 115VAC blue to vio and gry to brn APPLY TO blu and brn. and for output in series, red to org output blk and yel (I love you) and for parallel, blk to org and red to yel.
ummmm huh?
Off to the right of that picture are the two boards containing the Boozhound deluxe phono preamp which is two mono channels (one on each board) which I am supposed to power with this PS. But we will get the that later...
Right now, which wires go to the fused plug (the silver component on the left) and which go into the power supply? I am happy to provide whatever close up pics you need if this isn't enough. I figure this is probably simple for anyone but me. :)
Follow Ups:
As you can see on the multimeter, a rock solid 18v DC coming from the correct place on the power supply board. I fiddled with the pot to get the voltage right on the money and it stayed there for about 10 minutes without moving aside from a quick 17.99 showing up occasionally, but that's probably because everything is just placed there.A great big thanks to everyone who helped me despite my attempts to blow myself up. Especially jea48A, Stereojim and bcowen. You all have a cold beer or some home-made mead waiting for you if you ever come down to Miami Beach. You can come too, Awe-d-o-file. :)
Now I can start working on the stuff at which I am good, building a cool enclosure. Would there be any advantage to sticking this in its own enclosure and connecting via an umbilical to the phono preamp? Maybe not, but it would sure look cool. Although I did see that the transformer comes with a metal plate and a rubber gasket. This seems like some kind of anti-vibration thing. That can't be good inside the same chassis as the pre-amp. Right?
I'm going to send Jason a little "layman's drawing" to include with the power supply in case another electrical dummy like me wants to do this.
Edits: 11/06/16
Congratulations! Have fun choosing your enclosure - the sky's the limit with DIY. Some commercial designs put at least the transformer in a seperate enclosure to reduce electro-magnetic radiation being picked up by audio circuits and phono stages are sensative due to high gain. You could easily put connectors on the regulator output and run seperate DC cables to various components as long as the total power draw doesn't exceed the capacity.
Have fun with it, and let us know what you decide on. I'd like to know how it all sounds when you start using it!
That's the really important part. As soon as I can safely hook everything together, I will do a listening test with all three boards on a piece of plywood. After all this, I hope it sounds as good as those PIO caps promise.
Awesome, Manny. Glad to see it's alive!
And any self-respecting audiophile would honor their work by putting it in a separate box. :) Got this one on Ebay for $20. Nothing fancy, just two mating aluminum extrusions for the top and bottom and a couple powder coated end plates.
Finished stuffing the board last night, so the next step is to put everything in the box. I'm running the umbilical (Canare 4-wire in a star-quad lay) straight in to the board. No connector on the power supply, just a strain relief where the cable exits, and then an Oyaide plug on the end to go into the Wyred reclocker.
Hole in the front plate (below) is for the LED. Assembled board on top just to convey the size. Transformer is a Talema, but the same VA as yours so probably very similar in size. As an added bonus, you just haven't really lived fully until you spend over an hour Dremel-ing out the hole in the back plate for the IEC. :)
Very nice! I'm going for something a a little more steampunk in appearance and I'm going to try a voltage meter (analog) instead of an LED. I toyed with the idea of an illuminated gauge, but they are way too expensive.
I'm searching for some unique enclosure made out of wood or stone or a combination of wood and stone to house the power supply and preamp boards. Maybe something from a vintage piece of equipment.. we shall see.
I knew you were a card-carrying audio dude. :)
Please keep us posted on what you end up with.
Congratulations!In case you did not read all of my posts below.
The fuse should only be 1/2 amp max. I would think a fast blow would be adequate.
The fuse on the N, neutral line side should not ne needed.
If you look at the schematic diagram bcowen provided you will see a jumper runs through the fuse clip. You can verify this by pulling the fuse and check for continuity across the fuse clips. If you have continuity no need to install the fuse. If you do not have continuity you need to jumper around the fuse clip or install a slug. The neutral conductor should never be fused. it can be dangerous....The reason both AC power lines are switched as well as fused is the unit must be made for use on 240V power system where both AC lines would both be ungrounded HOT conductors. Maybe a balanced power system.
Edits: 11/07/16
Good to know. That actually explains why the only fuse that was blowing was the one on the hot side.
And I did read all the posts. :) Thanks again!
OK!!One basic rookie mistake... I assumed it had fuses in it. It did not. This is why I was getting normal 120v readings from the female end of the IEC power cord but no power going through to the other side.
So I looked around to see if I had any fuses and luckily, I had some left over from my Bottlehead or Hagerman Cornet build. (Bottlehead and Hagerman both put every little detail on paper, so all I had to know how to do was solder and measure voltages according to the manual...easy).
125A/250V 5x20mm SLO-BLO fuses.. (a question about that will come at the end)
Put the fuses into the IEC module and set up a VERY DANGEROUS bench test with the leads going into the hot and neutral as instructed and the output leads on the rubber pad that I have covering the workbench.
Plugged the thing in and viola! 17.8 Volts off the black and red leads and 17.79 Volts off the orange and yellow leads.
It was a simple solution. Fuses.
Now comes the next issue. Encouraged by this excellent result, I turned the switch on and off a few times and measured to make sure it hasn't been a fluke. All is well.
I then proceeded to (after disassembling the whole deadly thing, the reassembling with the board) connect the red and black and orange and yellow to the board. Flipped the switch on, and measured at the blocks on the board, nothing. One of the fuses had blown.
I'm going to call it a night, and see about getting the correct connectors for the IEC pins. I don't want to damage it ($24) by overheating it with an iron later on, and for safer bench testing.
QUESTION... should I get different value fuses? Are those OK?
Thanks again everyone! I will post pictures and what the troubleshooting reveals.
Edits: 11/06/16
125A/250V 5x20mm SLO-BLO fuses.
125 amp? I am pretty sure you mean 1.25 amp? A 125 amp 250V fuse is a pretty big fuse. Amperage as well as physical size.
I then proceeded to (after disassembling the whole deadly thing, the reassembling with the board) connect the red and black and orange and yellow to the board.
Are you 100% sure you hooked up the secondary windings correctly?
Did you parallel the two windings so they were in phase with each other? If not the two winding will buck one another and that would blow the fuse protecting the transformer.
Winding #1
Blk and Red leads.
Winding #2
Org and Yel leads.
To parallel the two windings,
Connect the Blk lead and the org lead together. (This becomes one hot leg of the 15Vac that will feed the board)
Connect the Red lead and the Yel lead together. (This becomes the other hot leg of the 15Vac that will feed the other terminal on the board.
Are you 100% sure you hooked up the secondary windings correctly?
Ah! No! I did not do that. I will try it as you say and report back. Since there were two blocks on the board to connect A/C I assumed it was one block for each winding.
Where is the schematic wiring diagram for the board? I wouldn't hook up anything to the board until you know for sure what's going on with the two AC terminal blocks.
Your neighborhood must be dark.
Do you mean 1.25 (1¼) amp? I'm going to assume that's the case.
That Schaffner filter you bought is rated at 1 amp, according to the label on the photo you posted, and according to the data sheet for that model number.
I'd use a 1 amp (or lower) fast blow fuse. If the circuit you're building draws more than one amp, you should have bought a filter rated more than one amp.
Good luck with your project.
Manny,
You noted the voltage and size of the fuse you tried, but not the amp rating. And I'm not sure what you mean by "one of the fuses had blown." There's only one fuse in the circuit. If there's a place to put another fuse in the fuse drawer, it's just a place to store an extra.
Since you're wiring the output of your transformer in parallel to get 15 volts, that particular transformer can draw up to 1.66 amps. So if you had a fuse rated at 1 amp or less in there, that could possibly explain it blowing, although there should be very little amp draw with no load connected to the power supply. Methinks there might be something else wrong, but check first and see what value the fuse was that blew.
Actually this thing has two fuses, one for each live connection. It has a fuse holder to house a third which is a spare.
I have a link to the data sheet. Look at page 5 at the bottom.
As far as the fuse goes, what should I look for at the store tomorrow? something in the range of 1.5 to 2 amps at 120 volts?
I'd recommend 1 amp, either 125v or 125/250v (rated for both). Get a few extra, as I'm not feeling all warm and fuzzy that the fuse rating of the one(s) you blew are the problem.Interested to see how this all turns out. I'm just starting a build on a power supply myself (from AMB instead of Booz). Like you, I'm competent with a soldering iron and have built a bunch of kits over the years. But this one required some parts sourcing on my own, and figuring out a few things that made me scratch my head initially (like LED dropping resistor values and transformer wiring). :) Hope mine doesn't blow up...
Edits: 11/06/16
bcowen,I see you deleted your previous post. Here is my response.
You are correct for the maximum current rating of the secondary. The data sheet shows for parallel, 15Vac, the transformer is good for 1.66 amps.
25Va/15V = 1.667 amps.For the primary winding you have to divide 25Va by 115V.
25Va/115V = .217 amp.Recommended minimum fuse size rating.
.217 X 125% = .27ampMaximum fuse size rating.
.217 X 250% = .543 ampI would not use a fuse bigger than 1/2 amp on the primary side feeding the transformer. As for why the 1.25 slow blow fuse blew my bet the OP shorted out the secondary windings by hooking them up wrong, or, he wired them in parallel out of phase with one another. Hopefully he didn't fry the transformer.
A 1.25 amp fuse would be about 575% of the FLA of the primary.
.217 X 575% = 1.25 amp
Edits: 11/06/16 11/06/16 11/06/16
You are right... I accidentally hooked them up parallel which blew the fuse.
Yes, I did delete that post. After Shovel's comment on the amp rating of the IEC filter, I went back and looked at the spec sheet. And looked at it wrong - I didn't pay attention to the fact that it was a general spec sheet for several different models. Shovel (and you) were right, I wasn't, and as nobody had responded at that point I deleted the post rather than add unnecessary confusion to the mix.
Thanks for the detail on the amp rating. I just learned something. I thought the fuse needed to cover the amp draw of the transformer secondaries, which is what I was basing calculations on for MY power supply. Looks like I need to go back and recalculate! Greatly appreciate the explanation.
bcowen,Thank you for posting the schematic diagram for the IEC/switch/fuse/filter unit.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/20/202695.htmlIt helped a lot, at least for me, to know what all the thing did.
I still wonder if the safety equipment grounding conductor travels/passes straight through the thing.
Also I would have never thought it had a double pole single throw power switch, DPST.
As for the fusing of both incoming lines. The schematic diagram shows a jumper through the fuse clip on the neutral Line. That indicated to me a fuse should not be needed on the 120V unit. A neutral should never be fused. It can be dangerous in certain circumstances. What I don't know for sure is what the OP has. He could just pull the fuse on the N, neutral, side and check for continuity across the fuse clips.
I believe the unit is designed to be used on 240V as well as 120V power systems. That would explain the DPST power switch and both hot AC power lines fused. The thing is the 240V mains would have to be both Hot ungrounded conductors. Maybe for a Europe 240V balanced power system...
Jim
Edits: 11/07/16
It is designed to go to 240V. Maybe the medical uses require 240? Dunno. Either way, it seems to be a great solution for plug, filter and power switch all in one.
A volt ohm meter. Get one and learn to use it and life will get much easier! I know you can do it.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Once again. Thank you everyone. I can hear palms hitting foreheads as I struggle with this. :)
I have a Hylelec MS8233D digital multimeter. In the photo, you can see the output pins of the IEC plug. When I measure across "p" and "n" (which I think are hot and neutral respectively) I get .717 volts. Less than 1 v. When I measure from either p or n to earth (here called PE) I get 120v. Is this correct?
MannyE,
If you measured without anything being plugged in, you probably measured resistance - measured in ohms, not volts. Without knowing exactly what you measured, and how, it's difficult to say what is going on. Was it actually plugged in when you took measurements?
Was your meter set to volts ( AC or DC )? Or did you just check continuity ( in ohms )?
If it was not plugged in, then you measured something besides volts - there is no voltage if it's not plugged in to the wall. If you were just checking continuity, everything is probably just fine. If it was plugged in and you really did measure 120 volts between N and PE, something is wrong. If it is wired correctly, you should have 120 volts between P and N.
This Post has been EDITED:
When I measure across "p" and "n" (which I think are hot and neutral respectively) I get .717 volts. Less than 1 v. When I measure from either p or n to earth (here called PE) I get 120v. Is this correct?
Humm
If true that would seem to make PE the hot conductor. That doesn't make any sense.
Before you go any further check the power on the end of the IEC power cord only. Use the Link below for the Female IEC connector L, hot, N, neutral, E, for earth ground.
//Here is what you should have at the mains 120V wall receptacle outlet.
From the hot contact (shorter of the two slots) to the neutral contact (bigger of the two slots or "T" slot) you should measure 120V nominal.
From the Hot contact to the "U" shaped equipment ground contact you should also measure 120V nominal.
From the neutral contact to the "U" shaped equipment ground contact you should measure around zero volts. Though this can vary somewhat depending on the connected load on the branch circuit wiring due to VD, voltage drop.
//////
When I said check for continuity I was talking about through the device. From the power in, input end, to the power out, output end.After your last post I discovered the device is not just a fused IEC male connector but actually houses a power switch, fuse, and filter.
I also learned the device is 15 amp @ 120V.
Click on the link below. Does the picture of the IEC power in male plug end of your device look the one in the picture?
If yes notice the L, E, and N?
L = HOT
E = earth ground, safety equipment ground.
N = neutralWith your meter set to continuity or ohms touch one test lead probe to the power in "E" male prong, (the end the power cord will connect) and the other test lead probe to the PE terminal on the other end of the device. The PE terminal should be the one that is at a right angle to P1 and N1. The one in the center between P1 and N1. You should read straight through continuity/OL/short.
Power switch on device must be closed, ON position.
Next touch a test lead probe to the power in "N" prong on the IEC plug. Touch the other test lead probe to the N1 terminal on the other end of the device. You should read continuity/OL/short.Power switch on device must be closed, On position.
Next touch a test lead probe to the power in "L" prong on the IEC plug. Touch the other test lead probe to the P1 terminal on the other end of the device. With the switch closed, on position, you should read continuity/OL/short. Open the switch, turn off the switch, you break continuity. This is the HOT Line.Post back your results.
Edits: 11/06/16 11/06/16 11/06/16 11/06/16
Something is not right - there should be 0 volts between N and PE. P to N should be 120, P to PE 120. Are you measuring voltage with this inlet plugged in to the wall outlet? Be careful!
If it's not plugged in there will be no voltage.
If it is plugged in, are you sure that the outlet and power cord are wired correctly? Don't wire anything to this inlet until you discover what is wrong - it sounds like your ground pin is live - if you ground anything to it that will also become live.
Stereojim,
Here's the schematic for that switch from Schaffner's datasheet. I'm not much with schematics, but it looks to me like PE should be earth ground. Perhaps you're better reading these than me....
Manny, when you're measuring, you have a fuse in place and the switch in the "on" position?
It appears PE is earth ground. Funning way of showing it is straight through though.I wonder if this thing is Listed by any recognized third party safety testing laboratory.
Note:
P (hot), and N (neutral) are both switched with a double pole single throw switch.The fuse is in series with P the HOT, as it should be.
Edits: 11/06/16
I agree PE should be earth, but he said he measured 120 volts between N and PE. Since N is tied to ground, there should not be any voltage difference between the two. Maybe he measured something other than voltage - there might be resistance between N and PE, but there should not be 120 volts. The voltage should appear only at the live wire (P) - the others should be at 0 volts. I'm not sure how he measured this, but something is not right.
Manny,Normal convention for an IEC socket is with the orientation shown, Hot (or Line) should be the tab in the 9:00 position. Ground at 6:00, and Neutral (or common) at 3:00.
You should get 120v between Hot and Ground, and 120v between Hot and Neutral. You should not be getting more than residual voltage between Neutral and Ground (like the .717 volts you're seeing). Sounds to me like PE is actually Hot, and p is ground from what you're measuring. Assume you have a fuse in the tray?
Edits: 11/06/16 11/06/16
Did you buy the Triad magnetics transformer vpt30-1670 as suggested? The Boozhound instructions say that you need 15 volt AC secondary voltage. According to the transformer datasheet, to obtain 15 v AC, twist black and orange together, and twist red to yellow. The voltage between the black/orange and red/ywllow pairs should be 15v AC. Do you have a multimeter to check voltage? If so, do so. If not, I would suggest that you get an inexpensive voltage meter - if you are going to do any DIY audio, it is something you need. If you wire the transformer secondaries in series, you will have 30v AC, likely too much voltage - it will damage the voltage regulator. Wire them in parallel, and you should be fine. Good luck! Let us know how your project comes out - I'm sure others might also be interested in the Boozhound designs!
Yes in fact I'm composing an answer post (which is kind of a pain with all the pictures). Actually, the link on his website now points to a smaller transformer ( VPT30-830) which isn't as large as the previous one, but still gets the job done.
I will get it up as soon as I can put it together on the iphone... sigh.. next time I will just take the pics and transfer to the desktop.
I really appreciate the help and I hope it results in a step by step for the electrically ignorant like me..
for input connections 115VAC blue to vio and gry to brn APPLY TO blu and brn.
Primary is a dual winding.
For 115Vac
Tie the blue wire to the vio wire. > Connect the hot fused AC Line to this pair.
Tie the gry wire to the brn wire. > Connect the AC Line white neutral wire to this pair.
//
Secondary is also a dual winding.
Need more information.
* What is the input AC voltage needed for the DC power supply boards?
* What is the available output voltages of the secondary of the transformer?
The two secondary windings can be wired in series, for the higher voltage. Example, 12Vac
Or wired 3 wire split phase. Example 6V - 0V - 6V. From the two outside leads the voltage is 12Vac. From either outside lead to the 0V center tap the voltage is 6Vac
Or
The two secondary windings can be wired in parallel for a lower voltage with twice the amperage rating. Example, 6Vac.
Looking at the transformer, I see this label. Which is not the model number Stereojim mentioned, but is the one the link on the Boozhound site chooses when clicked, so I went with it.
That is pretty close to the order you suggested, but different enough that I'm concerned. Let me see if I'm even understanding what's going on here. I get 15v AC from the transformer. Then put into the power supply which then makes the 15v AC into 15 V DC and I can listen to records. Is that correct?
Here is the thing. Let's take it very slow and step by step so I don't blow up stuff. This is the fused IEC plug I plan to use (which was given the OK by Mr. Boozhound himself).
According to the label, how do the wires connect to the plug? What color wire goes to which pin on that plug? In other words, how do I know which is the "hot" pin vs the other one you mentioned? Let's get that answered and then move on to step 2 which will be the board.
Edits: 11/05/16
Manny,
A couple things in addition to what jea48 and stereojim have instructed:
1) If you connect the transformer leads directly to the IEC filter unit, the power supply will be constantly on whenever it's plugged in. This is your choice, of course, but if it were me I'd put a switch in there.
2) IEC input filters like the one you have are typically intended to have the wiring connections made with a slide-on connector (ie: stake-on terminal) rather than have anything directly soldered to them. Be aware that if you solder the transformer (or switch) wires directly to the IEC, you may melt and dislodge internal connections inside the filter depending on how it's constructed inside.
3) The center lug on the IEC filter should be the earth (or safety) ground tab. I strongly 2nd jea48's suggestion though to continuity check the filter from end to end and make sure the center lug matches up with the center pin on the other end. In any event, this ground should be connected to the chassis or case of the unit. This will prevent the case from being live if something is miswired or there is an internal fault or failure with the unit.
That is pretty close to the order you suggested, but different enough that I'm concerned.
What the picture shows is the primary has two windings. 2 X 115Vac
Winding 1) Blu-Gry leadsWinding 2) Vio-Brn leads
For a 115Vac feed input you parallel the two winding together. THEY MUST be paralleled together in phase with one another or they will buck each other like two Bull Moose butting heads.
Blu and Vio tie, connect, together. The Hot wire from the IEC connector connects here.
(If you are not using an on/off power switch and the Blu and Vio leads are long enough you could connect and solder them directly to the IEC connector Hot Line terminal)Gry and Brn tie, connect, together. The white neutral from the IEC connector connects here.
(If the Gry and Brn leads are long enough you could connect and solder them directly to the neutral terminal on the IEC connector)//
My previous post:
You said in your post.
for input connections 115VAC blue to vio and gry to brn APPLY TO blu and brn.
Primary is a dual winding.
For 115Vac
Tie the blue wire to the vio wire. > Connect the hot fused AC Line to this pair.
Tie the gry wire to the brn wire. > Connect the AC Line white neutral wire to this pair.
There is no difference.
/////
That's a weird looking IEC connector.If you look at the picture you will see where it says LOAD .
Then below LOAD you see P1 ..... PE ..... N1Strange markings. What country was that thing made for?
I think,
P1 = L, the fused Hot wire.
PE = Earth ground, the safety equipment ground.
N1 = N, the neutral white wire.If that thing were mine I would check the continuity of the thing to make sure. Is it a 15 amp IEC connector?
/////
I get 15v AC from the transformer. Then put into the power supply which then makes the 15v AC into 15 V DC and I can listen to records. Is that correct?
Actually the unloaded DC output voltage will be slightly higher 15Vdc. I forget the formula.Follow Stereojim post for the secondary winding configuration hook-up.
Double check, triple check, the winding configuration connections before you plug the transformer into the wall receptacle.
DO NOT connect the transformer to the circuit board/s until you first bench test the output voltage of the transformer. It should measure 15Vac.
Edits: 11/05/16
First, I really appreciate you taking the time to go through this with me. I'm particularly dense when it comes to this stuff. It doesn't help that there seems to be no consistent way of using colors or labels as you can see from the IEC socket. That's not a problem if you're fluent in circuits, but for the electrically illiterate, it's incredibly confusing. Not to mention potentially deadly.
I'm pretty sure I understand it now.
I chose this IEC connector because it's a power switch, fused and filtered "power module" which I thought would make for less fabrication on my part. I also thought the magnetic shielding couldn't hurt.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: