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Hello Everyone! Probably has been discussed to death...please excuse me. Seeking opinions on footers to be used as couplers. With all things being equal...ie...of similar shape and size (cones/spikes with spike "shoes") and placed on same platform...which material would yield a more organic tone, as opposed to analytical. Anyone experienced signicant differences before?Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Edits: 07/08/16Follow Ups:
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Ebony......., Me 4.
If all else fails?, do consider trying a combination of these along with some pucks made from American Black Walnut, where boards can be found at most local lumber yards. Used as a tandem makes for a rather beautiful sound as rendered from the lower midbass upward to the treble ( yet as noted above, if ones system lacks extended highs?, then Ebony itself can become a tad to much of a good thing ) this is one of those areas where brass ( Audio Points ) should be added to one Source as if seemingly passes said sonics downstream and combine with the others.
And being that I use a combination of the Shun Mook Super Diamond Resonators | Symposium Acoustics Rollerblock Jr's | and said Black Walnut Pucks throughout my system with very very very pleasant results, I tend to recommend these quite highly, yet as the saying goes........, YMMV?, as many don't seem to hear the effects that any isolation devices brings to the table........, but once again as mentioned above, in one system or room for that matter, everything makes a differences in how the purity of notes can be rendered upon reaching someone's ear, granted said people can hear what's what to begin with.
You can try brass, not brass plated acorn cap nuts under you stuff. Will give you an idea of how brass sounds. Bigger is better. My combo is brass, 3/4 yellow poplar and EAR Isodamp 1002.
It might depend on what component you wish to use footers that may impart a more organic tone, as opposed to analytical. Source or amplification? Is there a maximum budget-level for a set of footers in this case?
@Everyone...Thank you all for time spent in sharing your thoughts and experiences. I really am extremely grateful.@Duster...I am leaning heavily towards a tonewood like Ebony as it seems to be the wood of choice for manufacturers of footers. I intend to start with my floorstanders first. At the moment...they are on blunt brass spikes ...on bamboo plinth...on big fat dots...on wood laminate flooring over concrete. I am hoping for a more organic tone. Will replace the brass spikes with Ebony footers with "spike shoes". My plan is if it doesn't yield the result I am after...I will try them on my tube amps. Budget is probably $200 for the whole project (2 sets of footers). I will probably try them on the speakers and amps and decide on which has more impact. Amps currently on stock footers on open frame walnut rack. Source which is a cdp currently on isopads...on rack ... No platform. Overall presentation is neutral. I am trying to err it towards a more organic and darker tone.
Your thoughts?
Edits: 07/10/16 07/10/16 07/10/16
This isn't always 100%- YMMV, but in general, one may benefit by
installing brass footers (mono-directional as in Mapleshade, etc.), under
ALL amps and source components by draining unwanted energy away from that
component into a base-- usually a wooden plank, etc. Ebony and Maple are
both excellent, in some cases, age-hardened douglas fir is even better.
They all have different effects. Brass footers from Mapleshade or Walker
Turntables aren't cheap, but these pieces are VERY good... the more
expensive, the better...
But what if you're on a budget, but want substantially better sound
overall?
Remember what makes one of these things work-- directionality. They're
one-way devices, sometimes you run some upside-down, sometimes you run
the same thing right-side-up. You can ALSO simply isolate-- that is--
just shock-absorb. If you do this, mushy materials WILL sound mushy,
sharp materials WILL sound sharp... pick & choose.....
I got a lot of cheap mileage out of Golf Balls at an audio
show. I ran over to Radio Shack and got some of those colored rolls of
cheap vinyl electrical tape. I placed a Golf-Ball atop each tape roll'
center. This was a nice stable base for the Golf Ball.
The Golf Ball is round, but it also has dimples which de-tune any
unwanted vibes rather well, and has very limited contact area--
good. Simply place the amp or component atop
the Golf Balls and their tape-roll holders. Different places
underneath components will all sound different...
It is important that the Golf Balls ride ATOP the tape rolls, and
DO NOT touch the surface beneath the tape holder-- the Golf Ball
must "float".
This is one trick of many-- you just have to decide where you want
energy to go, and then figure how to get it there.
For instance on speakers... do you want energy to go INTO the floor,
or do you wish the floor to load into the speaker? Since you can have
it either way, now you decide what it is that you want.
---Dennis---
If you wish to experiment with ebony under your loudspeakers, you might consider a set of ebony coupling discs (a.k.a. speaker spike base) positioned between your brass spikes and bamboo plinth, with Herbie's Audio Lab Thin grungebuster Dots adhered to the bottom of the ebony coupling discs (choose the black colored Thin grungebuster Dot with pressure-sensitive adhesive):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Ebony-Wooden-Spike-Pads-Speaker-Hi-Fi-Floor-Stand-Base-Shoe-23-5-x-6-5mm-/252437602325
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/gb.htm
If you wish to experiment with ebony under your power amplifier, you might consider a set of four Herbie's Audio Lab Iso-cups with Gabon ebony balls, since what you describe is exactly what the Iso-cup with Gabon ebony ball provides when placed under a power amplifier. While you are at it, also try the Gabon ebony dome located on the same page. A set of three Gabon ebony domes can be used to replace a tripod set of metal spikes, and can be adhered with silicone adhesive to the bottom of a loudspeaker, component, or platform with no need of coupling discs placed under the domes:
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/special.htm#iso
@Duster...Thanks. 2 sets of ebony footers and bases arriving in a couple of days. I think I have a set of iso-cups with ebony balls in a drawer somewhere...haven't used them in years. Never did try them on a heavy tube amp.
Once again...Thanks Everyone. Really appreciate your help.
If you can locate them, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that the Herbie's Audio Lab Iso-cups with Gabon ebony balls will provide what you seek, since the sonic signature is pretty much spot-on as described by Steve Herbelin of Herbie's Audio Lab:
-snip-
"Gabon Ebony: African ebony subtly enhances upper frequency timbre with ethereal sustain and "bloom." Though bass is not particularly powerful, extension is very deep and well-defined. Upper-mids are smooth with plenty of "air" and three-dimensionality. Gabon ebony is perfect for music lovers who enjoy a somewhat laid-back, light and natural presentation."
-snip-
As for the ebony footers and bases you ordered, I recommend using Herbie's Audio Lab Thin grungebuster Dots adhered to the flat side of both the ebony footers and the bases (choose the black colored Thin grungebuster Dot with pressure-sensitive adhesive), since doing so will allow the ebony footers and bases to function better as an interface between the loudspeakers and the surface they are placed upon. The Thin grungebuster Dots will also keep the ebony footers and bases from slipping & sliding, and resonating against the surfaces they interface with.
I have found that there is no single type of cone that works everywhere.
I have conrete floors with carpet, my speakers had 1inch high hard plastic rails that brass cones screwed into. I removed the rails, drilled holes, then installed threaded inserts and used heavy brass Star Sound cones straight into the carpet. Tightened everything up, more clarity. The speakers weigh 175lbs each.
I started with isol-pads under my preamp, then went to BDR Pyramid cones.
My amp has a large cutting board sitting on cheap brass cones with the amp itself sitting on 4 large rubber stoppers. [Available at most hardware stores]
I have tried various cones, Cardas blocks, and prefer the rubber stoppers under the amp.
Other components that sit on a shelf that have cutting boards, have the isol-pads under the boards and various cones under the component. I have never liked the Cardas blocks under anything I tried.
Besides the above consider the carbon fiber products from BDR. And I would stick with brass for the speakers.
Another cone to try, if not sold are the Poly Crystal, there was a set available in the Asylum Trader.
Footers and isolation are really a trial and error kind of thing. The BDR cones, isol-pads, rubber stoppers, and Poly Crystal are all low cost. So you can experiment and find what works for you.
Have you visited the Mapleshade website? More info to chew on. I don't agree with everything, but you can't read too much information on this hobby.
Improvements aren't "dramatic" or "jaw dropping" as the website claims, but everyone's setup will be different.
Since it can be subjective like most things audio, you simply have to try it.
Apologies if pic posts upside down. Posting with this IPad somehow screws pics up.
There is a spiked REL sub behind the listening position on a 4" maple slab for the bass duties. My system is comprised lofi "value" gear, so the tweaks help make the system
approach sonics of the show rigs I've heard..
That doesn't look very "lo-fi" to me. Really nice looking system and very nice setup.
However, that room is disturbingly clean for someone with your moniker. :)
"That doesn't look very "lofi..."
Thanks! In the context of "performance audio" I classify it entry/mid level? I just made sure what I purchased was on sale and looked decent in addition to respectable sonics.
I'd love to go up a notch in gear selection, but no time soon-$$$$$
Everything makes a difference of some degree or another and back when I cared I came to conclusions about feet.
Small signal electronics with metal chassis' had improved inner detail in the mid-range with a very slight loss of ultimate bass response with the EAR feet that Michael Percy sells for about 75 cents apiece. That was true for SUTs and phono pre-amps that I built and placed on the 1 3/4" thick maple shelves of my rack. Those became my choice over both aluminum and brass cones.
With the hardwood chassis/aluminum top plate construction I use for my pre-amps and amps, unfinished Gabon Ebony is my choice bringing out the best bass weight, clean mids and airy highs. The EAR feet muddy the bass and various cones, while improving bass weight did evil things to the treble.
I reserve brass for replacing steel transformer bolts and the instrument I play.
Brass, no doubt. For coupling you want the hardness that metal will bring, over the toning/damping you'd get from wood. As to metal, you'll see that most footers are brass for a reason. And I would keep all steel FAR AWAY from your stereo system wherever possible. YMMV
I agree about the increased damping of wood and lower resonance frequency, but I question the "coupling" effect of metal spikes. In to a wood floor, anyways, the acoustic impedance mismatch will result in over 90% reflection with steel and similarly with brass. This does not account for geometry, but the tip of the spike seems to me the highest pressure zone that will only exacerbate reflection. Transmission being the goal.
Brass footers over an ebony plank might be a great combo
I have replaced steel speaker spikes with brass cones with good results. Very good improvement on subwoofers.
On most tube equipment, I prefer Ebony over brass cones. I hear more natural tone over brass.
Shun Mook company makes Ebony disks of different sizes, and they incorporate a rather small diameter spike, which points downward into a shelf or platform. The steel they use is hardened, and has a Diamond tip. I have a few sets of them and like them very much. Other types of wood footers, such as Cardas Wood blocks, work just as well on some equipment, so go ahead and try a few.
Shun Mook also makes a Maple platform with an Ebony disk imbedded in the Maple. I have not tried it, but sounds like an interesting idea. I've found that platform material can help or reduce the benefit of specialty footers. Don't forget to try some material on top of your components.
Tarq
Or how about ebony footers on a brass point? :)
Not accepting the Amazon link for some reason:https://www.amazon.com/Ebony-Speaker-Spikes-8-Pack/dp/B01GEO41SC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468017317&sr=8-1&keywords=ebony+isolation
Edits: 07/08/16 07/08/16
From my experience with ebony, it gives a connection feeling to the music, a legato feeling, uniting all sounds making them coherent. It also gives a "heavier" sound signature, density to the midrange and midbass. It might not be optimal for a system with not too much highs. It is a good choice to optimize a bright system
Edits: 07/08/16
@Tweaker456 & everyone ... Thanks. Ebony platform would definitely be cost prohibitive...:)
@aknaydenov. Thanks. In your experience...would ebony vibration control devices under equipment like tube amps and CD players have more of an impact than ... speakers for example?
NT
"Back home, when we get a taxidermy man, he gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him!"
--Robert Shaw, "Jaws," 1975
Ebony
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