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In Reply to: RE: So you know what it doesn't do, yet... posted by E-Stat on November 05, 2015 at 05:42:57
The Mad Scientist cleverly makes no claims that could be tested. This also leaves the end user with the opportunity to develop his own set of beliefs about how the products work, apart from the obvious fact that putting a weight on top of a tube (in this case) will dampen its vibrations and alter resonant frequencies and tendency to be microphonic. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. I use tube dampers, and I have noted that some "work" better (i.e., alter sonics in a more favorable direction) than others. Although the differences are not something I lose sleep over.
Follow Ups:
This also leaves the end user with the opportunity to develop his own set of beliefs about how the products work
and, just as often, an opportunity for End Non-Users to develop an a priori but potentially misleading assumption that they don't. Couple that with the ability to dismiss products that they have never heard and never plan to and you have a formula for bufoonery that even Jonathon Swift would struggle to belittle.
If I developed a worthwhile tweak and wanted to market it, I'd tend to see "measurements" (whatever their other merits) as a tool in the hands of End Not-Users keen to show off how they feel competent to dismiss any new phenomenon. Naysaying End Not-Users are IMHO as much to blame for the paucity of pertinent data as any manufactuer.
and you could fairly accuse me of being one (a NENU). So, just for that reason, I will try some Tube Toppers. By the way, I wrote nothing about measurements per se. However, I usually want to know how a product works to make its magic, even if the idea is theoretical on the part of the manufacturer. I don't think that's too much to ask. What surprises me is that folks like yourself seem to be offended by the mere posing of questions about products that you have already adopted. If you're happy, why would you even care what anyone else says or thinks? You could be an Easily Offended End User. (An EOEU. They are indigenous to Australia.) Anyway, I tried not to disparage the Tube Topper in my remarks and had no intention of doing so.
Also, I am not entirely a NENU. Here are some "tweaks" I use in my home system: (1) Goldmund cones; I actually think they sound better than any other cone, and I have only a theory why that is. But they've been around for probably 20 years and are no longer made and so receive no attention. (2) Other tweaky footers; I never let anything sit on its factory supplied feet; heaven forbid! (3) Good AC plugs, but I am always behind the latest fashion. I've made all my own AC cords and interconnects. On ICs, I like Eichmann bullet plugs. For IC wire, I use 5N or 6N silver, thinnest gauge possible without compromising current carrying capacity. For AC cord, thick gauge pure copper or XLO top of the line AC cord from M Percy. To achieve heavy gauge, individually insulated strands of thin gauge run in parallel sound best, IMO. In general, ribbons and thin gauge wire sound best, IMO. I hardwire AC cord when possible, in the belief that an IEC connection robs some of the benefits of a good AC cord. I've tried several different wraps around AC cords and ICs which are supposed to shield from EMI and RFI; none have ever made a difference. Perhaps I live in a low-hazard area for those radiations. (4) AC power regenerator, only on front end equipment, never on amplifiers. (5) Tube dampers from Herbie and other sources; I like Herbie's the best but only because they are well made and sensibly do not cause the tube to run too hot. (6) I carefully dress all signal-carrying leads with respect to AC cords. (7) I do quite a lot of DIY building and modifying of tube equipment, and in those endeavors, I have many biases that are substantiated only by my own listening experience; I never measure distortion except by looking at sine waves on a 'scope.
Could you copyright this phrase, and could we use NENU as an abbreviation of same?
axolotl
Could you copyright this phrase . . .
Well, I could but Public Domain is where I generally lurks. 'Sides, NENUs is bad news.
But what are Morks?
D
.
I just wanted to add a thought as to why tweaks like these are not often explained by the manufacturer and kept a mystery. The materials to make the tube toppers is obviously not something rare like pieces of moon rock or ground diamonds. If they went into detail about the product of even the specific problem, emi,rfi,ect they address copy cat and diy'ers would soon be making clones. Mapleshade comes to mind. They explain their tweaks in great detail. So what do a lot us of do? Instead of buying their product, we get our own maple platform or brass weights.
The Mad Scientist people have a 30 day money back guarantee. You can try them and if they don't work return them. I don't think there is an deception involved in their vagueness.
Yet in spite of the truth in what you say, Mapleshade is a long-lived, thriving business entity, so far as I know. Probably because most of us are incapable of recreating their products or are too lazy to try. Also, there's nothing voodoo about a maple block or a brass cone (or a ribbon wire, for that matter); you either like 'em or you don't. They produce and sell great CDs, as well. They're selling quality, to some degree. Not to mention that Pierre Sprey is one of the smartest guys I've ever met.
It actually wouldn't have occurred to me to try damping tubes simply with mass when there are effective dampers such as those from Herbie's which take a totally different approach.
Perhaps it was simply a follow on from my abandoning mass with loudspeakers the best part of 15 years ago that has somehow stopped me seeing mass as a solution.
In any case I have seen the Black Discus and now the Tube Toppers as working in a manner closer to crystals than sticking a big lump of something on to things.
The BDs are pretty lightweight to effect speaker cables and plugs through mass but those effects are certainly there and I would agree with others here who consistently hear a darkening or treble roll off in certain places.
But in other areas the effect can be very positive. Experimenting is the key which is why the freebies from MSA were so valuable.
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