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In Reply to: RE: Herbie's Audio Lab makes the most of what you have posted by hifiman5@ptd.net on October 07, 2015 at 04:32:14
That's awesome Philip, good to hear of your findings. Did you happen to take a picture of the completed installation?Musetap: I wonder how you could have "over-damped" the chassis or components to sound flat? This would indicate that the component you damped is getting its full sound before damping by way of vibration.
I haven't heard of a design that relies on chassis or component resonance to fine tune for the better. to me, something would have to be wrong with the design if that was the case, and resonance by fluke made it better.
Edits: 10/07/15Follow Ups:
"I wonder how you could have "over-damped" the chassis or components to sound flat"
In engineering, when you damp a system you can damp it so that it's in one of three states:
-- under-damped - this is where the system still oscillates, but less
-- critically damped - where the system returns to normal as fast as possible with no oscillation.
-- over-damped - here the system does not oscillate but returns to normal slower than the critically damped case
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping, but this is basic mech eng.
So it's entirely possible to overdamp something, and the effect is that the damping is slower than is needs to be. Car suspension for example is designed to be critically damped - if you overdamp the car will not drive as well, with bumps unsettling the vehicle for longer than needed.
Imagine a loud bass drum crash with a subtle cymbal (say) shortly following. On an overdamped system you may get the effect of the cymbal being lost due to the slow damping action.
Also note that critical damping relates to a particular (resonant) frequency, so that a system that is critically damped for say a bass drum frequency will be over-damped for higher frequencies.
my resorting to "Well, I just overdid it!"I would imagine someone with skills much beyond mine could actually
tune a chassis to get optimum results for their ears. I suppose it's akin
to tube dampening where if one applies too many dampers and/or places
one in the "wrong" position you can easily change the sonic characteristic
of the tube and null the good vibrations.Speaking of tubes, I like what the magic tubes do/have done so far (in
your recommended IC usage) but have yet to have the chance to experiment
or assess enough to post about it.Thank you!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure
Edits: 10/08/15
Thanks Beautox for the explanation and link.
Agreed jhrlrd.
Once I "grungebusted" my SACD player and heard the incredible improvements, I went to work on the rest of my system. Everything I listen to has a blessed loss of the dreaded "electronic haze". I can't imagine either how the components of ANY system can be overdamped. Think about the basic physics . Vibration is the enemy of almost every functioning item in our world. The lack of micro and macro vibration is always a good thing. If someone damps their components and believes they have overdamped it, then in all likelihood, a sonic quality of the pre-damped system simply appealed to their subjective sonic preference for how they perceive sound.
One more thing to consider is "normalization". After a week has passed since I "grungebusted" my system, the perceived sound SEEMS less dramatically improved because I have become used to it.
No crusade here. I would just love for others to give this very inexpensive effort a shot and judge the benefits in their systems for themselves.
All the best!
Philip
Start with the fact that all audio systems are very imperfect. Add to that the fact that most of us have our private notions of what sonic qualities most closely approach reality. Then, it follows that in the quest for verisimilitude, the components of an audio system can be "over" damped, to the point where they cease to sound "real" to a given listener.
If the goal is to make something that is inherently imperfect operate as perfectly imperfect as possible, then, I guess, you'd want to remove all spurious energy.
That's a good explanation Phillip. Maybe a listener gets used to the colored sound and then prefers what he's used to, rather than the more "correct" dampened version. I was thinking maybe it was psychosomatic.
Anyway, the way we perceive things is important, whether its real or not, and measurable or not.If for nothing else but peace of mind.
But more on topic, I used the beloved plumbers' putty to dampen various parts inside my OPPO and preamp. I heard no difference. Maybe the grungebuster material would be more effective.
Whenever I have used tube dampers they always deadin the sound. Maybe a little microphonics is a good thing
Alan
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