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In Reply to: RE: Now you might compare solid 10awg mag wire posted by Duster on June 26, 2015 at 09:10:17
to Tara Labs which uses a solid core design on some models
Follow Ups:
The issue does not pertain to small gauge solid core conductors, it's the nature of large gauge, round shaped solid core conductors, of which 10 AWG and 12 AWG certainly are. In fact, they are massively large gauge vs. maximum 22 AWG, often 24 AWG and even smaller gauge solid core conductors, which are the most advisable gauges to work with for audio signal applications. However, I find a fairly large 18 AWG (RG6) solid core pure silver central conductor for digital signal applications being an exception to the rule, IME.
As for Tara Labs, their novel rectangular shaped solid core conductor design avoids the more massive cross section presented by typically round shaped solid core copper conductors which tend to present audible skin effect when larger than 22 AWG.
Text taken from the Tara Labs website:
-snip-
Why Rectangular?
Our patented RSC conductors have become the definitive technology in high-end audio cables. The rectangular shape offers a unique advantage over round conductors. They have the necessary mass for solid bass, yet are thin enough for a coherent reproduction of mid-range and high frequencies. The RSC is not subject to the same high frequency losses that hamper traditional round conductors. To further understand the principle behind RSC technology, it is necessary to understand a phenomenon known as "skin effect" This principle states that in a round conductor, higher frequencies will tend to travel towards the outside (or skin) of the conductor, while lower frequencies will travel closer to the center of the conductor. The larger the diameter of a round conductor, the worse the effect will be, resulting in a significant roll-off of high frequencies in large gauge conductors. Because of its rectangular cross section, an RSC conductor essentially has no center like a round conductor. Therefore it does not suffer the same high frequency losses.
-snip-
Space and Time used regular large gauge round cross sectional copper conductor. They had not developed rectangular core at the time
Yep, it seems Tara Labs found skin effect to be an important issue to address at some point in space and time ;-)
Good one, Duster.
How do some products make it to the marketplace?
In the early race to get an advantage in the burgeoning audiophile wire business, I'm sure plenty of marketing people realized that bigger would sell better. So companies like Tara that had nothing else to sell, scrambled to make bigger wire. The engineers, after consulting their charts and taking a few measurements, told the bosses that 10ga wire was the best stuff they could offer.
Lots of money went into developing and selling a 10ga product, but no one took the time to listen to the shit, or else they convinced themselves that it really did sound great because the engineers said skin effect took effect far beyond audio frequencies. These same engineers no longer work for audio companies, but spend their time on websites telling people they can't possibly hear skin effect.
Now they were stuck with a significant investment in garbage wire, but they knew they could sell it to audio idiots by the pound, not by the sound. So the trick was claim bigger is better and to pair it up with equipment that was equally shitty in the opposite way. You know: synergy. Take dull, lifeless, bloated large gauge solid core wire that probably wasn't much different from Romex except for the MUCH prettier jackets and fancy packaging and name, and pair it with bright IC's or electronics or speakers (easy to find, back then) and you've got synergy. While you're dumping that crap and raking in the dough, get to work on the next gimmick (square wire! no one else has it! it's the best!) so everyone will forget the stuff you just claimed was the finest bit of metal and plastic ever developed for audio.
Thus the cable business was booming. They got plenty of my money, too, in those days. And I had some Tara stuff and liked the sound for a while. Still have one pair of their cheapest IC's in the kitchen system. They're still a pretty color.
Peace,
Tom E
Actually the wire sounded quite decent when paired with early ADcom an Nakamich components. What was curious was that each leg had one acctive wire ( hooked up) but the negative had an extra wire hooked up only on one end.
Also around the same time period Peter Moncrief of Internation Audio Review and the creator of the Wonder line of products (wire, solder, and
caps), was advocating a combination of Polk Speaker wire (crossbraided positive and negative fine strandds around a core) and paralleling them with Solid Core Romex. At the time it was not bad spounding but a bit unwieldy.
The Tara, on careful, listening made me aware of a certin sense of coherency through out the response even though it was not even, of course.
Again YMMV and FWIW
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