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In Reply to: RE: Why Kill Valuable Musical Information/ Dynamics of Sound-Waves at the First-Reflection Point? posted by Dryginger2 on June 21, 2015 at 17:14:56
I have heard your speaker model in a dealers mid/high end showroom. Nothing extravagant regarding room treatment. In fact, NO room treatment. Just great gear/cabling with the speakers placed in their sweet spot.
What I heard was great sounding music. All the things most want-depth,soundstage, realistic imaging,air.....Most importantly, I just heard music and forgot about the speakers. I am comparing this also with what I've heard in show rigs with FULL tweaky setups.
Regardless of being technically right/wrong, some rooms just seem to make systems sound amazing?
The S.O. clearly doesn't have any jurisdiction in that room.NICE!
In the video, RH says loose the big screen(or cover it). Since your TV is considerably behind the speakers, perhaps you don't hear any
bad reflective stuff. Suppose it boils down to how critical your actual
hearing needs are. I have my plasma on a roll away for serious listening.
Follow Ups:
Dirtyvinyl,Thank you for the compliments on the Mozart Grands. I share your favorable experience and they are well-matched to the LFD LE4 amplifier.
On starting in this field four years ago, I read extensively to identify three highly experienced audiophiles whose advice I have always followed. They each said, "The only way to learn is to ignore the theories of conventional wisdom and those attempting to intimidate with technical qualifications/ experience and develop a solid bedrock of experiential knowledge from listening exclusively to your ears during testing. And to test literally everything (borrow no assumptions of any kind).
Yes, RH does speak of losing or covering the big screen in a coil-speaker environment of off-axis sound-waves although even then I still believe that treating the area behind the listening position to be more important. The sound quality from panels located as pictured above is quite different to them cupped in immediately proximity around speakers; candidly they sounded awful there although I referred to a loss of natural sound to Beautox in order to be diplomatic yesterday. With the panels as pictured above, I can place my head anywhere in the sound stage area without being able to hear any direct sound. This means that those with racks between their speakers will no longer pay a high price for obstructing off-axis sound-waves leaking there. Have now re-directed my attention to testing ways of improving musical tone by modifying how the sound-waves best flow away from the mid-range and woofer ports. Any solution will be particularly speaker-dependent, of course, as discovered when quickly testing Stu's suggestion yesterday.
Incidentally do you play the sound of your plasma TV through your audio system and, if so, have you disconnected and removed the little audio units from the TV yet and your home yet (storing them outside/ in the garage)? Doing so brings a nice increase in clarity.
In my opinion there are two real disadvantages to these panels for those with coil speakers and an open mind. First is cost. A bare bones version of the two pairs pictured above would come to $150 and include just the bare four plywood panels and rounds, Thomson ties and screws. Adding cork with liquid nails would come to another $120 and adding four P-99 non-glare, clear, acrylic, drilled and counter-sunk 1/8" thick panels would add $200. And, for those subject to the approval of a significant other, they do take up a large amount of additional visual and physical space.
So members can choose between the damning recommendation of qualified experience and theory on the one hand or the undaunted ears and testing of an individual who lacks fluency with audiophile language and may be too honest for his own credibility but is not invested in anything other than the best sound solution that he can hear. The opinion of those ears has been repeatedly sought by a highly-qualified veteran of Bell Labs with golden ears. While more curious than moved by the official undercutting, do appreciate support.
DG
Edits: 06/24/15 06/24/15
"Incidentally do you play the sound of your plasma TV through your audio system and, if so, have you disconnected and removed the little audio units from the TV yet and your home yet (storing them outside/ in the garage)? Doing so brings a nice increase in clarity."
Casual watching, audio is just through the plasma. I have a very UN sophisticated setup. If I want to hear audio from the tube via the system,
I plug the line outs which feeds the amp. Movie night with a DVD, same thing with the DVD player. Both are on the roll-away.
Those speakers were on my list when shopping, but I ended up with these which at the time were easier on the wallet(closeout)Opera Seconda
Equally musical,but a different build(sealed cabinet)
I do the planks under the speakers as well. An REL well behind the listening position is on 4" maple also.
I'm curious about the presentation with your mods. Must sound amazing since your gear is already up to the task as is.
Dirtyvinyl,
You have a handsome system that must sound great.
Perhaps to protect our nervous systems from cumulative shock or to allow us to remain receptive to new impressions, we cannot hold our satisfaction with new products or delight in audio improvements for more than a week or so before they recede into our memory bank. Tweaks allow us to upgrade the same equipment with staggered improvements and moments of renewing satisfaction. Is my sound better than three years ago? Yes, it's almost unrecognizably improved but that happened in steps some of which individually made a huge impact and all of which made a clear and present improvement at the time. And probably learned more from testing the many things that did not work out than the fewer things that did. Complexity is clutter so always looking for a way to reduce the total number of installed tweaks when another breakthrough might make any redundant. It's fun!
DG
DG, those are very kind words. In relative terms $$, I hear an acceptable amount of performance that I can't afford at shows . Eventually, I will mix it up with a completely different speaker. Perhaps bite the bullet and up my tolerance level dollar wise.
I agree with your analysis of nervosa.
Small pieces of Dynamat sound damping 2x2 inch squares can have a big effect on that window behind those speakers. They can really tighten up instrument location and decrease smearing. Two to four squares usually does the trick.
"They can really tighten up instrument location and decrease smearing."Funny you should mention that. If I want to really hear the system approach what its capapble of, I have an unusual, but effective way of taming reflections and focusing the overall sound.
The room is quite "live" as the system is pracitically surrounded by windows. Both L/R walls are windows the length of the room.
Just like other home brew tweaks such as nice rugs on the wall, I have some discreet velcro strips that hold up clear shower curtains. They provide surprising damping properties and under $10 bucks.
One on the rear window is used as well.
SO tolerated since it isn't permanent. With them in place, a noticeable
notch up in realism.
Edits: 06/24/15
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