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Here are my first impressions after sending a load to cryo. Besides parts I use I also sent my interconnects and power cords and my digital coaxial cable.Oh I sent some razors too and I now shave my head too and usually only get one use. I've gotten two already on the first one tried and will try it another time.
I put all the cables back on and listened to the usual five recordings I know best. Right away I was hearing new detail not heard before (these are recordings I've heard 1,000 plus times) The overall tonal balance remained the same but the HF seemed clearer and more succinct. It was also quite apparent the image was a little wider and taller*.
So after playing the five I decided to try the coaxial digital cable instead of the Silflex glass TosLink cable. (you can see it in Dusters post below this one) I was afraid to cryo that. Perhaps Duster can chime in on whether to cryo it or not if you know.
So with the Digital coaxial in place the same five were played. First noticed was more bass.(more bass than the TosLink) After listening to the five recordings again I found its HF that used to be tamer than the TosLink had changed and was about the same in level but with some unwanted harshness not heard on the TosLink.
So cryo did change it a little and mostly for the better. I'm going to play the digital source 24/7 through the cable for a few weeks and try it again. I do not think the cryo made the cable worse, it did change it and mostly for the better even in a quick listen. I'll see what happens over a longer time.
So as usual cryo has provided (small) immediate benefit. The shipping to and from actually was more than the cryo service (which was under $100) since the packages were also insured for over $3K and sent 2-day priority via the post office.
E
TI added some edits to be more accurate
* image height is easy to hear and is extremely recording dependent. Well I guess EVERYTHING is recording dependent. The height also became much easier to detect once I got a cathedral ceiling that is 12.5 feet at the apex which is where the mono image lives.
Edits: 04/20/15Follow Ups:
IMHO, I doubt cryo treatment of borosilicate glass fiber optic material would be of benefit, but who knows if POF (Plastic Optical Fiber) might be. I would go on to wonder how cryo treatment might affect the cladding of an optical cable, too. I've read that polymers may benefit from cryo treatment for improved mechanical strength and resistance to wear, but how that may affect the performance level, one way or another of an optical cable is unknown to me. The only association of fiber optics with cryogenics I've come across is its use as a lead for temperature sensors. As a side note, cryogenic ampules are manufactured with borosilicate glass.
Has anyone stepped back a bit and stopped to consider what the cryo is actually doing?In the case of steels,the evidence is overwhelming that the steel develops more martensite which tempers and actually hardens the steel, as Scandinavian smiths discovered by throwing forged blades into the snow drifts.
One wire manufacturer, quite prominent, thought the copper was affected and has tested it, apparently, claiming that cryoing wire can increase the purity by 10%, theorizing that the extreme cold literally "shrinks" the base material and will force out dissolved molecular air embedded in the metal ( hence we have things like oxygen free wire, etc.)
If this is true then it could very well benefit even fiber optics, no matter what the base material is, being that the fiber is man made and drawn under unknown circumstances ( 6N plasticor 6N borosilicate?). Drawn wire will force a certain amount of air into the surface of the drawn material.
Plastics are rather amorphous in their molecular structure (Borosilicates mimic quartz, IIRC and I could be very wrong), but they are not true crystalline in nature. A true crystal follows a set physical pattern of layering, molecule by molecule. While needing high purity to form ( at least clear ones), an extruded tube will necessarily follow on more "plastic" an amorphous mix of the same molecule.
Air embedded in the dielectric may not be a bad thing as electrically air is very good and only second to a vacuum. Molecular gas in the fibers are another thing, however, and would cause a greater scattering effective not as pure. Technically, a true crystal has a set "blueprint", so to speak, and the molecules are built up one by one layer by layer. Unless synthesized under exacting conditions, though, such purity and consistency is rarely achieved. I would think that the cheaper fiber optic cables would benefit more as their production is not as well controlled.
At any rate. food for thought.
Incidentally, the coatings should have an effect, as their interface with the cable is partially responsible for the reflection within the cable itself.
Edits: 04/22/15
Thanks! I still enjoy that cable too, thanks for the rec.
E
T
Curious if any CDs were sent in to be cryo'd?
No I forgot to do that. I have about 5 CD's (where I have two of the CD) that I wanted to do so I could compare. Next time I will, thanks for the reminder!
E
T
I don't know what they charge, they never emailed me back.
E
T
I have cryo treated about 500 cd's after first comparing 3 cd duplicates. One treated and the same title not treated. The treated cd's had less metallic-digital sound and better 3D soundstage. You need to reclean the Cd after it is treated. Small change but worthwhile.
What is really fun is to send compression driver diaphragms (titanium diaphragm with copper voice coils) to be cryo treated, same type diaphragm to be cryo treated and then treated at Synergistic Research with Quantum tunneling. Then listen to the stock diaphragm, the cryo diaphragm, and the double treated diaphragm. Each has a distinct sound.
Lots of fun.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm looking forward to sending in a few of my CDs in the near future.
How much does Jena Labs charge for CDs? There's a place in California that charges $3 each. Does that sound about right?
yeah I got into cryo in the eighties fun stuff.
moray james
No offense, Awe-d-o-file, and I usually don't go here, but if you heard improvements of your cryo'ed objects immediately upon return, I have to believe that any such improvements had to be mind over matter.
Since 2004, I've had maybe 75 100 different objects including IC's, SC's, fuses, outlets, inlets, plugs, wires, PC's, Using both the more popular vapor method and more recently the far less popular but superior full-immersion method and nearly all were good to excellent results.
But I've never had a single cryo experience where the object was better than before immediately upon return and install.
To the contrary, because the metals altered become "as new" again, the object's performance will be compromised and sound worse than before at least until the object has fully burned in once again.
Unless perhaps your cryo vendor isn't actually cryo'ing the objects at all, but maybe doing something funky like putting the objects on a cable cooker or something else.
Simple objects like plugs, connectors, outlets, fuses, etc, take roughly 2 1/2 days of constant use to fully burn in. Cables usually take 5 to 12 days (seems to depend on length and complexity) at most but 5 or 6 days is the more common burn-in period.
If you've received real performance gains immediately upon install I'm suspicious. If you don't receive any other gains in the next week or 2, then I'd have to guess the objects were never cryo'ed in the first place.
Try the razor. If you're a bloody mess, then we know something odd is going on with your cryo vendor. :)
Some days I hear an improvement using a particular cable. The next day it's crap. Then a few days later it good - then it's not.
The mind plays funny tricks on us.
Any material science engineers to weigh in on the cryo topic?
You mean the mind plays funny tricks on you.
FYI I emailed Jena and never got a response from them. I have no fear about the cryo that I use and have used previously. Thanks for the post. I now have 96 hours of time on the cables that were done. Doing another listen, my second, later tonight. I got some subtle but fairly easily noticeable results in that first listen but did/do hope and expect more in time. That's how it has happened previously for me too.E
T
Edits: 04/19/15
If you want me, drop me a note with your email address and I could try reaching out to Jena Labs. But I've not been in contact with them since last July.
It would be well worth having them cryo your objects with the superior full-immersion method.
BTW, if your IC's and speaker cables are burning in together, you're IC's will probably be fully burned in around the 5 1/2 day mark.
But you may hardly notice any difference until the speaker cables are fully burned in days afterward. I stumbled across this purely by accident and then later confirmed with Jena Labs my supposed findings and they said absolutely. Until both are fully burned in, the one often times will act as a performance bottleneck for the other until both are fully burned in.
Anyway, I look forward to a progress update.
To really hear the maximum effect that the cyro had on those cables and wires you need to put them on a cable conditioner like the AudioKHarma unit.
{ audiodharma }Thanks for the mention, David....but our resident expert, Mr. Stehno, already "knows better" than "doing something funky like putting the objects on a cable cooker or something else". Oh!! The horror!!
And of course, our choice of cryogenic vendor is a distant second to Jena Labs, despite our successful treatment(s) over many, many years. We'll never learn....
Edits: 04/20/15
Oh, Alan. You're just upset that I exposed your mind playing tricks on you.
Resident expert? In comparison to you, I suppose you're right.
But you said that, not me.
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