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Hi,
I've read a review where a guy was connecting amplifiers and cdp direct to ac without any plugs and he said that it was not as good as with good connectors...
Does somebody did the same? Which results?
I'm convinced that top level plugs can benefit to the sound but my idea was to suppress the iec (not the schuko because I want to keep the hability to unplug the system from the wall). Only good wall plugs and no iecs: a good solution???
Follow Ups:
Don't do that
After extended trials I hardwired my system completely straight from the MCBs panel to the wires soldered to the back of the IEC's using designated clamps. This must never be done by a not certified electrician and it's against codes so I post this just as an own professional experiment!
However this is one of the best tweaks I have done regarding the AC chain, That and after deciding to use the Siemens 5SX21 MCBs and RCD, after wiring the system directly to the meter for sometime just to find how things sounded with no brakers at all, WARNING! this experiment was done under licenced electrician supervison and with safety measures,
The Siemens proved to be the most 'no MCB' sounding of all the rest I've tried.
Then came bus bars and wires, Each aftermarket ones sounded different and mediocre and the brand ones carried the sound signature of their matching MCBs, unfortunately I couldn't get a Siemens, what brings me to the next tweak. I took apart some of the 40A Siemens MCBs I had aside, took out the 8mm/2 solid wire coils that were around each ferrite barrel, Flattened them, removed the coating from the ends, insulated them w/shrinks and used them as jumpers between main-RCD and MCBs, great improvement.
In conclusion, every bit of metal and contact after the meter counts.
Edits: 04/19/15 04/19/15
. . . certified electrician and it's against codes
In the UK, certified electricians who connect in breach of the codes [UK term = "The Regs"] can be - and have been - imprisoned. My electrician (sadly, just retired) would do anything to humour my mains-power obsession except breach regs. As he put it, in case of an accident, I'd have to live with the consequences, you wouldn't.
It is not necessary to hazard life to clean up the mains. See e.g. "Audio Quality Mains Supplies" by Ben Duncan if you can find a copy. It's based largely on experience in the studios.
D
.
"In conclusion, every bit of metal and contact after the meter counts."
So why don't the ones before the meter?
At the risk of stating the obvious wouldn't working on the PSRR of your system really be the logical approach? If all that incoming stuff matters you probably have a ground loop somewhere or poorly designed gear.
I've mulled it over in the past and decided that if I ever become insanely obsessive about the mains that I'd rig-up a motor/alternator in the garage and have a rubber "V" belt between my precious stereo and the philistine power company. Could that be your next step...
Rick
Joe Harley had the best word on the subject when asked the same question. He told the skeptic: "I have a money back guarantee, if you don't hear anything just return the cable."
Nuff said
But the problem is that you SHOULDN'T hear a difference, not that you do.
The power line looks horrible on a scope nowadays, way different than it did in the 50's when power factor was the main concern. If your gear isn't designed to reject those signals, and most aren't, then you got problems.
On top of that running unbalanced signals with grounded power cords is just asking for grief. Most of my stuff doesn't have "safety" grounds and that helps somewhat I think.
I've been tinkering with some resonance and Vib. issues of late and was blown away with the actual aural magnitude of the problem which I figured would be minor at worst. Perceptually it turned out to be anything but...
So far I have found little sensitivity to power supply issues but you know how it goes, you get one thing cleaned up a bit and as a reward you then hear the next layer of issues. Guess that's what makes it an 'interesting' hobby...
Regards, Rick
I'm finding that power factor correction even though an audio system is on the small scale of things, makes a difference.Even just using the .1 uF caps that are UL approved makes a difference. I initially though it merely shunting off noise, but I was informed by an EE that according to his measurements, it is affecting PF to a certain degree.
One of the things I have noticed is that running the snubbing circuits after the diodes, while making a sonic difference, ignores the spikes reflected back into the power transformer secondaries.
Since I use tubes, it is difficult to shunt the the B+ leads directly. Pondering the the reflection concept, I snubbed the other secondary outputs, namely the filaments (easy since they are low voltage). I was greatly rewarded by a much smoother and fuller sound. I was rather shocked at the amount of change and started to look at power transformers very differently.
Apparently the rectifier spikes go backward ( as was rather obvious) but can seriously contaminate the other secondaries. I have not really studied transformers, but it seems that such noise must be reflected and retained in at least the secondary windings.
We may be fighting more the effects rather than getting at the source of the issues in power transfer.
Of course YMMV and FWIW
Edits: 04/22/15
Hi Stu,
So before bridge and transformer you put a capacitor across + and -?
Did you try a RC across the + and - too?
The good thing in puting capacitor after the transformer is that you play with low voltage and so you can use other types of capacitors than X and Y ones. So you have to get the right value and you can play too around with the capacitor quality wich should be "earable" too. I think about very good and inexpensive russian teflons.
Well after transformer and before bridge. Hard to find high voltage AC caps for tube gear, so I place the caps, standard 120 VAC on the lower voltage secondaries like the heater taps. I make a bridge of .1 uF AC caps across both legs and ground.
works extremely well:eliminates high frequency edginess and brings out the midrange, lowering sn ratio and increasing dynamics. Oh and adds more detail
"So why don't the ones before the meter?"
Those are of a significance as well, But since I don't want to go to jail I do what I can within my territory.
Maybe you should have asked why people deal so much with outlets, plugs, cryo etc'. Power conditioners, stabilizers deal with the whole thing and that should be enough, is it not?
Screened PC's make sense though. So here comes the showerhead theory which I find to be true, otherwise I really can't explain what I am experiencing.
There are plenty of scientific evidence why current behaves like it does even thru the smallest of conductors and same gauges.
BTW there are some crazy videos online of people who installed their dedicated line straight from the neighborhoods transformer, Are they really crazy?
"At the risk of stating the obvious wouldn't working on the PSRR of your system really be the logical approach? If all that incoming stuff matters you probably have a ground loop somewhere or poorly designed gear."
No ground loop here, Trust me.
Most of the power filters I've tried harmed the sound, The ones I borrowed from my sound engineers friends were very good indeed but came with a price tag of $10k and higher.
" I've mulled it over in the past and decided that if I ever become insanely obsessive about the mains that I'd rig-up a motor/alternator in the garage and have a rubber "V" belt between my precious stereo and the philistine power company. Could that be your next step... "
Well, solar power comes to mind ;-) Anyho, I am fortunate to live in a place with a relatively new, clean and stable power supply so it would do for now.
went photo voltiac. Sells back 400 kW a month back to the utility company.
Says his systems sounds better on the PV grid with the oversized inverter he ordered, at lest during the days, on nights he is back on the grid
FWIW
My audiophile neighbor has photovoltaic cells on his roof, and he is fond of bragging to me that he loves to watch his meter run backward on a sunny day. But I got the impression that the way the cells are set up, the output is always going to the power company, day and night. Thus I would not have expected that the "quality" of the electricity used in a house bearing those cells is any different from what all the rest of us in the neighborhood are getting, regardless of sun exposure. This is in Maryland using PEPCO. Perhaps the way this is done is dependent upon locale and power company.
I've had a grid-tie system for the past four years. What your house does not use goes out to the grid. A special meter, (co-generation customer) supplied by the power company for solar installs records the kw, and yes they do go backwards. Each month my account is credited 22 1/2 cents for every kwh in excess of what I have used for that period.
Where I live the inverters feed the household circuit first and then the excess is sent to the utility. The meters still move backwards when that happens, however, be careful as some utilities use meters ( usually digital) which do not measure reverse flow.
Sells back 400 kW a month back to the utility company.
400 kW? That's a lot of PV cells. Do you mean 400 kWh?
D
YOu're right. all he mentioned was 400 kW but it must have been kW hours.
You definitely don't want to connect your device's power cord directly to the AC voltage source, but there is no reason not to eliminate the IEC connector and use a captive cable. Several of my recent builds eliminated the IEC connector because it serves no purpose if you are happy with your cable choice and does away with two connectors. The cable MUST be wired properly for your jurisdiction. In the USA that means that the hot wire goes to the fuse, then to the power switch and finally to the power transformer primary. The neutral wire goes to the power transformer primary and the ground wire must be grounded near the cable input to a sturdy bolt such as the bolt and nut that hold the power transformer to the chassis. See the schematic below and notice there are two power switches and two power transformers since the plate voltage will only be available when the filament transformer is energised.
... hard wired a power conditioner to the mains.
As soon as I plugged the equipment in I could hear an improvement.
I am not sure of any reason it would be unsafe but I do think it breaks code and house insurance.
I never recommend anyone do what I do.
;-)
Had a friend ,a general contractor, who wired his monster Krells straight to the mains breaker using the generator wire the company used. Wanted some flexibility so he installed the IEC ends for the amps.
Said it sounded like a new pair of amps and drove his ML Statements effortlessly
Don't play with this idea any further. Too many safety issues, not to mention all the other potential drawbacks.
Before aftermarket audiophile cords became popular, amplifiers had captive power cords instead of iec's. A hard wired connection makes sense by reducing three connections but having an iec offers the flexibility to try different cords and to use a cord in the length that suits your situation. I commissioned an amplifier upgrade and had a high quality Neoech OCC cord hard wired to the amp at the length I need. That set up works great for me and sounds great too. However, I would not recommend forgoing the connexion at the wall.
What you describe is a hardwired or captive power cord, rather than a detachable IEC power cord. The notion of a captive power cord perhaps being a better sounding option than a detachable type is no different than what some folks do when they hardwire a speaker cable at one or even at both ends of an amplifier/speaker interface, which seems rather extreme, IMHO. I would not advise folks to go that route unless they are sure they will never wish to swap-out or upgrade from one cable to another. Even then, in all my years of participating in AA, I've never seen good cause to ditch the ubiquitous IEC connector/IEC inlet interface method in favor of hardwiring an AC power cord inside an audio component.
removing the IEC connectors, male and female, in favor of hard-wiring the power cord directly to the primaries of the power transformer (whilst also retaining the protection of the fuse and power switch) is the only thing I would do and Do do. (Not doodoo, which is another problem.) No connector is always better than any connector, is my motto.
IMO, it's borderline nuts to hard wire the other end of the power cord to the wall socket. I don't see how it can be done "safely" (as defined in real Safety Codes that contractors and electricians must abide by). And furthermore, it's VERY inconvenient.
Aupiho,Not encouraging others to try the following since it did not sound good and particularly for reasons of possible safety concern. A year ago I did test the sound after removing the connector from the end of the amplifier AC power cable and connecting its stranded wires directly to the terminals on the back of the AC wall outlet. Had expected the elimination of flat-metal surface-arcing between connector and AC wall-outlet socket to lead to higher quality sound. To the contrary, it immediately became audibly obvious in terms of tone that the connector played a primary role as an intermediary material between dissimilar cable metals and dissimilar cable types (single core/ stranded) and any perceived fragmentation through arcing was a small trade-off to pay and minimize with better quality connectors.
Have never tried solid core wall wire direct to a component AC input which would certainly create a safety hazard by bypassing the input fuse in my amplifier. The same objection would apply in removing the IEC and soldering the stranded wires of the amplifier AC cable to its input terminals and so bypassing the amplifier's input fuse. (Tom E, please note in peace.)
DG
Edits: 04/17/15
Hi Dryginger,
Your test with and without tells the same as I read in the review I told in my first post.
In my case there would be no safety issue because my fuse is not in the iec
but just after in the amplifier PSU or cdp.
In the "supply chain" of electricity from generating station to the outlet in the wall behind your equipment there are too many 'flat metal to flat metal' connections to count-
there are isolation switches mounted on distribution power lines,
Open air switches in transformer yards
breakers up and down the line for overload/short protection
there are the connections in your own "fuse-box" distribution panel
I am not sure that removing ONE set - at the end of the power-cord - is worth the safety risk.
Happy Listening
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