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HAve a question- trying to swap coupling caps in the preamp from the stock Mundorf ZN series. Would like to get fuller sounding ones with more body in the upper midrange, treble.
Don't care much about HF extension, just want this frequency range to sound full- bodied and not lean.
Appreciate your help in advance
P.S. I know Duelund will not fir in due to the size.
Cost is NOT a consideration
Follow Ups:
You describe the sound of Auricaps to a T. They are full bodied, smooth highs and tremendous bass. I put two of these in an integrated and could not believe the improvement.
Not far from 5uf you've 4.7uf 1000v ptfe french capacitors if you need you can add a cheap 0.3uf soviet K75-10 500v or 1000v and you've got it!!!
Do you know how big the 5 uF is? The space where there need to go to is kind of limited.
it's written on the datasheet in my last post: 35x60mm the soviets ones are bigger!
The one below is very praised in japan and cheaper:
it's written on the datasheet in my last post: 35x60mm the soviets ones are bigger!
Hi,I've tried several ZN caps and don't like it much it tends shrink the soundstage and make it hard sounding in the midrange.
The best quality for price is to use a K75-10 soviet cap wich has a huge low mid wich gives a lot of body. In paralleling a teflon soviet cap you open the highs (wich are too shy with only K75-10) and adds bottom end.For a few bucks it's a very good solution!!!
Edits: 04/09/15
V-Cap CuTF pure copper Fluoropolymer capacitors. Only downside is a long burn in time for best sound.http://www.v-cap.com/audiotechnique-v-cap-review.php
Also see other link:
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Edits: 04/09/15
This V-Cap CuTF "sounds" very interesting. How would you compare it to Mundorf ZN in the preamplifier circuit? Or to other caps, for that matter?
yes the cutf seems to be good but what a price!!!In my SE 211 I use copper jupiter cap: the best of all I've tried!
The lampizator found it equal to the duelunds!
Edits: 04/10/15
Do you think Jupiter Copper/paper/wax will present a problem inside of the tube preamp, due to temp. Restrictions?
The new generation seem to have no problem with high temp because jupiter did improve it (80°C max temp it's realy hot!!!). But to be sure avoiding problems I put the cap in a thick cardboard barrel with cork sheets glued at both ends. I filled it with quartz sand and cover it with reflective aluminium foil and teflon plumber tape to avoid "shorts".
In the end the cap is shielded against rfi, heat and vibrations...and works superbly!
Operating Temperature: 80°C = 176 Fahrenheit.
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax Capacitor: Operating Temperature: 80°C
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Does it mean it's OK to use in tube preamp.? I'm not sure what's the temp inside the chassis is.
Yes there's no problem my 211 are running hoter than preamp tubes! But don't you have an electronic thermometer in your house with a wired sensor
to check the temp outside your house? Put the sensor where are the condensers and you'll be sure!
In my cdp I have very good caps too: audyn cap true copper
The main idea is to decide wich caps in function of how your system is: neutral, warm, on the bright side? So the "color" of the sound added by the cap realy matters. So multiple cap test are interesting and can be followed as a guideline but when we speak about very good cap none is better than another one: what matters is how it will react in your system.
I avoid too, using several time the same cap wich will several times add the same "qualities" or defects... So true copper cap in my cdp and jupiter copper foil in the 211 integrated.
lampizator caps test
This guy sells these caps? Of course they're the best in the world!They may very well be. Notice they're all true film with copper foil.
According to the creative graphics, none of them seems very evenly voiced. Why would you want a cap that emphasizes some portion of the spectrum? I certainly hope the differences are not as drastic as the graphic makes them appear. You might as well settle for a Solens!
Of course I don't believe that. I'm sure the differences are very slight within a larger universe of exquisite sound.
Edits: 04/13/15
Jupiter is interesting, especially knowing it can work in that environment.
The only problem is, thay don't make them in value I need- 5uF 250VDC (I need two of them), and BTW, neither does V-CAP CuTF
Both, V- CAP and Jupiter do make the other value I need- 1 uF 250VDC.
That leaves me with either Duelund VSF Copper (provided the chassis can accomodate the physical size, or Jensen Copper Foil.
I'm very cautious about Mundorf SIlver/Gold, mostly because almost everybody comments on treble emphasis, they seem to produce- that's a problem, I'm trying to avoid in the firsr place
For coupling duty, you do not need to exactly match the value of the cap you are replacing. They really don't even need to be matched between channels as in a speaker crossover. If the ZN is 5uF, a 4.7uF replacement will function just as well.
Avoid paralleling capacitors in coupling duty, either input or output. You will probably obtain better sound by using the best single film cap. It's possible to combine different film caps for line level coupling, but they don't always "add up" the way you might expect, and they might even detract from each other. Takes a LOT of experimentation.
Peace,
Tom E
I've done a lot of reading for whatever it's worth.
Many of the caps, I'd like to use, are either not available in the values, I need, or too big to fit in.
Pretty much leaves me with Mundorf Silver/oil
Any opinions?
We have such a vast body of information available. Sometimes it's hard to determine BS from valid advice, who really knows what and who merely likes to repeat second-hand info. I'm not claiming any special expertise, but I have done a LOT of research and a lot of my own experimentation with various boutique caps in coupling line level and crossover duties.
I did a little research on your behalf. If you want to try paralleling two caps to obtain the correct value and superior performance, you need to start somewhere and do your own trials. I suggest you buy a superb quality small value cap such as V-cap CuTF at the largest value that will fit your available space. You now have Mundorf ZN 4.7uF (there is no 5uF available that I could find; I wonder where you got that value?) which is listed at 26mm x 39mm, 1" dia x 1.5" L. You could get a 0.22uF CuTF V-cap for a hundred bucks each if you buy a pair at Parts Connexion during their current sale. They are 0.75" dia x 1.5" L, a perfect fit! You could try combining that wonderful cap with some cheaper, 4.7uF, lesser quality but still decent caps such as Clarity ESA or Sonicap Gen I, both available for under $20 each, both 1" dia x appx 1.5" L. The better quality cap mounts to the board (shorter leads) with the cheaper cap riding piggyback, securely attached (tape wrap?) and wired in parallel to get the correct total value. There are probably others to try, but your own experimentation will determine the best combo.
Then you can come back here and share with us all you've learned.
Peace,
Tom E
The best use for Mundorf SIO is in tweeter crossover, where they are perhaps the best cap available.
I tried them as coupling cap in my power amps. The highs were incredibly detailed and smooth, with plenty of air and 3D spatial qualities. Mids were also superbly spacious and detailed, but a bit thin. The bass was snappy and tight but attenuated, so much so that it almost hollowed out the lower midrange. Based on your initial post, that would be the LAST cap you will want. It has so many excellent qualities, but a full, rich midrange is definitely not one. I would venture that you don't want silver anywhere in your signal path if you seek a fuller sound. Stick with copper.
Please provide more information about the application. Is this input or output coupling? Perhaps you can get away with a smaller value that would make it easier to find a cap that will fit. How much room is there? Can you use two smaller identical caps in parallel, stacked up? Can you mount them off the PCB and still keep leads short? The cap value you require depends on the impedance of the next stage the signal sees. If it is input coupling, that means the input impedance of the preamp. What is it? If it is output coupling, that means the next device (I assume power amp) in the signal chain. What is that input impedance?
If no decent single cap can be made to fit, then you might need to explore using a small lower grade cap, or even whatever is in there now, and paralleling with a small value (1/10 - 1/100) high grade cap that can be affixed to the larger cap. It will require some experimentation to find a compatible combination. Neither cap should be a Mundorf, as I have found they don't seem to couple well with other caps in line level apps. You might consider starting with a Sonicap Gen I, which is pretty compact and has decent midrange by itself, and using a polystyrene or copper foil/film cap for the parallel. A single cap is still the best option, but if it just won't go then try something else.
Peace,
Tom E
Tom,
What do you think of Duelund CAST Cu of either 0.1uF, or 0.22 uF for the bypass? And what larger cap would they pair well with?
Tom,
Thanks a lot, really great info.
Especially with regards to Mundorf SIO. I read everything there is to read
about them, but apparently there is no substitute for the actual hands- on experience.
I will need 4 of 5uF caps for the line stage and 4 of 1 uF for the phono section.
Person, doing the modifications for me (and he is very experienced) also suggested V-cap Polypropylene SIO bypassed with 0.1 uF of V-cap CuFT for the line stage.
What's your opinion on this combo?
1 uF for the phono is more flexible due to the smaller size of the cap needed.
I was actually thinking of Audyn True Copper for that position, they fit just fine size-wise.
I'd really appreciate your opinion on this idea.
it is a full- function preamp with built- in phono, balanced design.
I don't want to name the brand, but is a high quality, expensive piece of gear, with retail of $25,000.
Thanks again
I actually meant to say "V-cap Polypropylene OIMP, bypassed by V-cap CuFT
Wow this is not my thread...but good info. Tom E, Thanks~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Edits: 04/14/15
5uf???I've got a top quality solution but you've to check before if you really need a 250v capacitor...Sometimes they put big voltage values but real value is a lot lower...
So depending of the real voltage solution could be 3 capacitors in //. Two Russians K75-10 ones wich are polyethylene in oil and one K72 or ft3 teflon.
2x 2.2uf K75-10 250v and one 0.47uf FT3 teflon or K72 teflon 1000v: About 4.9uf...
Gorgeous midrange, deep bass and detailed and soft highs
Problem when you put capacitors in // you divide voltage par 2... and with 3 you should ask to a skilled electronician to know the exact value you'll obtain...
Edits: 04/11/15
Consider a oiler. Perhaps the Jensens.
This subject comes up regularly, though not with your specific requirement.
I have used the ZN as a coupling cap in my power amplifiers, and I agree that they lack some body in the upper mids. It provides a typical Mundorf sound, with extremely detailed, somewhat emphasized highs and a bit of hollowness in the midrange. It is not a realistic sound, not one I favor.
The ZN is the only true film/foil cap that Mundorf sells, but there are plenty of other companies that offer such construction. I will say that I have ALWAYS achieved more realistic sound from film/foil caps as opposed to metallized plastic, which mostly use aluminum. If cost is not important, I suggest you seek copper foil construction. I believe ZN uses tin foil. Aluminum is only slightly better. In my experience, copper is absolutely the best. Polypropylene is an acceptable dielectric in copper caps, but Teflon is perhaps better. Paper in oil might not be as durable, although the temp inside a preamp should mitigate that factor unless it's tubed.
The best cap I have tried for coupling duty, out of a dozen or so boutique types, is the True Copper from Audyn, sold at Parts Express. It has an especially realistic midrange, along with all the other audiophile tonal qualities, plus incredible spatial characteristics.
If size is a constraint, it might be difficult to find a suitable value. You neglected to mention what value is required. A coupling cap does not need to be mounted directly on the PCB, but the leads should be kept as short as possible, and the cap should be secured against a solid surface with some cushioning to reduce vibration.
Peace,
Tom E
You might consider the Jantzen Superior Z-Cap.
See link:
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