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So I'm looking for speaker stands for my Merlin TSM Black Magic monitor speakers (probably Sound Anchors if I drop the coins). But I see that speakers stands get filled with sand or some other material for a dampening effect. If sand is such a good dampening material, why not build a stand out of what ever to get the desired height that is rigid, place a tray with say 1.5 inches of sand on top, and than place the monitor speaker on top of the sand (maybe separated by some Cling Wrap? OK - you can start laughing now.
Follow Ups:
Conventional wisdom says sand (and other like materials) is a good damping materials as certain types attempt to defy laws of physics trying to isolate an object from floor-borne vibrations.
Moreover, since speakers are comparable to an earthquake's epicenter, what good would sand do under speakers, except to trap the bombardment of internally-generated vibrations inside the speaker cabinet so they can induce even more harm.
But in the situation you describe, and if we put our thinking caps on, the sand inside the Sound Anchor stands can benefit, especially if the stands have cones or points going into the floor because the sand adds weight or mass-loading to ensure a more superior mechanical conduit between the speaker/stand and the flooring system in order for these vibrations normally trapped inside the speaker cabinet to now escape into the flooring system.
If you elect to build sand boxes to install under your speakers, you're simply trapping all the vibrations captured at the speaker IN the speaker. Which is not a good thing.
Conventional wisdom says sand . . . is a good damping materials as certain types attempt to defy laws of physicsI'm not sure it's the case (as your argument, though unclear, seems to imply) that "conventional wisdom" typically seeks to defy the laws of physics. But if you say which physical laws you have in mind, I'm sure all would become clear.
Thanks.
Edits: 04/07/15
The physical laws I speak of specifically are:
1. Since everything in the universe is made up of various forms of vibrations, it is impossible to isolate an object from all sources of vibration simultaneously. Some might say, it is possible in a vacuum chamber. But even in a vacuum chamber the object would have to be levitating.
2. Like electricity, mechanical vibrations or resonant energy is aways seeking the most expedient path of least resistance to ground.
To the contrary, conventional wisdom says we must isolate our components (and speakers) from floor-borne vibrations. The most common problem here is the 400 lbs. guest at a dinner party getting jiggy / dancing right in front of the turntable causing the $3000 stylus to jump 14 grooves and the next day the dinner host is out on the internet pleading for help to prevent this from ever happening again. Well, that's actually about shock and impact, and has little to do with controlling vibrations. But that's how the story usually goes.
I should note that since electricity is really just another form of vibration, it would be more accurate to state that, like resonant energy, electricity is also seeking the most expedient path of least resistance to ground.
The laws of physics dictate that electricity and resonant energy are seeking ground. Yet, the vast majority seek to prevent this natural behavior from occurring. And in so doing, they inherently trap all air-borne and internally-generated vibrations captured at the component at the component.
Vibrations are captured in a moment in time but when travel is prohibited will dissipate over extended periods of time.
I've not tried this, but I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that if somebody had an "isolation" type of racking system and footers, they could probably place a speaker directly on top of their components and the sound wouldn't sound any worse. I speculate because the components are already saturated with trapped vibrations dissipating in place and therefore, can't sound any worse.
The physical laws I speak of specifically are:
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the time you've taken.
Dave
Hey! I'm not laughing....It's a great way to allow unwanted resonance to (Drain and dissipate....Some of the senior guy's out there (such as myself) might recall a company called (Bright Star Audio) way back mid to late 80's "I think" These where low profile MDF boxes attractively coated with a (granite like) finish..
they where shipped empty and the end user would fill the boxes to within 3/4" of the top with fine dry sand and carefully smooth and level....Bright Star provided a slightly undersized top made of the same 3/4 MDF...You would simply place the top so it would not be making contact with the inner edges of the sand filled box...A 1/2 foam spline was provided ...This you would tuck into the slight opening around the full perimeter to hold the sand in place...It looked very professional..I have been through quite a few incarnations (in electronics) since I installed this system..I use it under everything..Speakers Turntable...etc etc..I do use good quality metal toes between the appliace and the sand box...It sure works for me...I tried a set -up last year (Ihad refinished my music room) I left out the sand boxes...Within a day or two I knew that had to go back in..(Lot's of work)..The difference was astounding...I had forgotten how this can let you hear the music ...So I'm not laughing...You could easily build this yourself bringing the equipment to the required height...I think it's one of the winner tweaks of all time...
"What a great ride"!!
I have been using cinderblocks for my Spendor BC-1's and it sound very good. It sounds much better than the standard wood stands I was using.
Dave
Bobby (B) at Merlin recommends that I purchase a good pair of stands. But with shipping that is probably just north of $600 for Sound Anchors - ouch. So I'll try a few other things first. So I'm running the Merlin TSM on sintered blocks, sitting on business cards so as not to scratch the bottoms and per the recommendation from B for my older pair of TSM's. Sound very detailed but on lean side. Agains B's advise, I put a 6 x 6 x 1.75 patio block on the top with some of that thin black rubbery kitchen shelve liner material you can get at Walmart. Their was an improvement, but some of the life was lost in the sound. Maybe the blocks were to heavy. B says new TSM's should have Blue-Tac under them, not the business cards. But my original TSM's which were purchased used had a bottom spot damaged because someone put some tacky material under them. Well, maybe I'll just try tossing those cards and put that thin black rubbery sheet under the speaks without the blocks. Hey, that is a noticeable improvement. Maybe I need to try the Blue-Tac next, or just buy the Sound Anchor Stands.
Sound Anchors makes some of the best stands in the business, but they are shipped partially filled and the shipping then becomes outrageous.
Robert Worzolla is a really nice guy and I had contracted him to build some custom stands for me.
We also traded ides although I would have to initiate the conversation as he, not surprisingly, preferred not to give away trade secrets.
one thing we did agree on, is when using a hollow leg stand, fill the legs asymmetrically. He used a lot of concrete, but he would add additional fill material,say, screw in one leg, blue rock in another, etc. This enable each leg not to share the same resonance point, and it does sound better, more detailed, and with a grater frequency response.
....with my modified Cabasse Baltic II speakers. It seemed to suck the dynamics and life out pretty badly, at least for me. Bass just went away, as did lower midrange energy. I quickly got them out and have never gone back.
Now, if you have too much bass and lower mids, then it might be a wonderful tweak. But for my speakers, it was not beneficial, unfortunately. You can always try, though, and report back with your conclusions.
Before buying or building a box, I tried a pair of large, very rigid plastic kitty boxes to experiment with. (I did, however, remove all the urine and cat shit beforehand....) ;-)
Of course, equipment can be a much, much different story, and the success of the Bright Star Audio line is a great example. But making your own can be fun and save a lot of money, if you are into DIYing.
Best of luck, and happy tweaking!
Cheers,
WS
rigid stands are the way to go. Most are made of steel. AS such the hollow legs can vibrate so a sand filled mount helps dampen the stand.
Also filling the stand helps in lowering the center of gravity, too
If the purpose of sand is to turn vibration to heat through friction, then it needs to be able to... vibrate and thus must not to packed down.
If you make a sand box (and I have had them) then the mass of the speaker compresses the sand which actually (over time) become more rigid and less able to do what it was originally intended to do.
You are better putting a speaker stand into the tray and then filling the tray with sand so that the sand is free to vibrate and damp the stand at the same time.
I am ready with my tin hat and anti-depressants for adverse commentary... ;-)
No not really, as most advocates seem to favor your approach.
.
Put a board on top of the sand first, then put the speaker on that board. Just as you would with any other component. I don't see why it wouldn't help add mass, and provide you with a way to adjust the tweeter height at the same time.
A gentleman is best defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion ... and doesn't.
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