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In Reply to: RE: Tantalum vs. Roederstein resista (MK) resistor posted by Tubenstein on March 08, 2015 at 20:22:47
I liked the Roederstein's "back in the day" and still have several hundreds of them left over from various projects. I would describe them as slightly on the warm side of neutral. I would not call them "rolled off in the upper midrange" but they are not the last word in absolute best high frequency extension. I never considered them as "slightly grungy", at the time, but compared with the Vishay TX2575s (VARs), they are and so is everything else. Rick and I might be saying the same thing.The TX2575s are the most neutral and transparent I've heard. My favorites. Just ordered a 100 of them for a project, but at about $9-11 a piece in bulk they could be a budget issue!
The Shinkoh tantalums are beautiful,slightly liquid with silky sounding highs, in a romantic, beguiling way. They are similar to, but a little less lush sounding, than the Riken carbons. I really like these but wouldn't use more than a very few in any circuit although you could probably get a way with a few more in SS design. They are problem solvers.
Edits: 03/09/15 03/09/15Follow Ups:
Hello!
Friend of mine has modified his ARC SP-11 MKII by replacing all Roederstein with mixture of Vishay TX2352, Shinkoh tantalum, Audio Note tantalum (2W only), and Dale CPF3 with great result.
He told me that he want to replace all ROE resista with TX2352 but TX2352 has a limit resistive range and power rating up to 0.6W only. That's why he chose tantalum as second option and Dale CPF3 as last options.
What do you think??
Regards,
Andy
.
I just did a shoot-out with the Shinkoh Tants and the Rikens and the Vishay VARs, as well as a few others. I may write it up in greater detail. Might not. But here's the quick synopsis:
The Vishays win hands down for transparency and accuracy. Detail, too. AND tonality, as well. Just a superb, but pricey, resistor. The best so far.
The Shinkohs were wonderful in the mids and bass, and had a very lovely, smooth HF response. I understand why so many folks love these. But the Vishays edged them out due to their supreme transparency and air and resolution. But those Shinkohs are really nice, and if your system is just a wee bit bright or needs liquidity over air and details, go with the Shinkohs. Good bass, too.
As for the Rikens, these are really rich and full sounding with gobs of bass and lower mids (maybe a hair too much, for some systems, I suspect), but nowhere near the rez of the Vishays and the Shinkohs. So, if your system is really bright, the Rikens are something to consider, as they are quite good otherwise. Bass is 'generous', though, so if you've got bass problems, the Rikens may not be what the audio doctor ordered. Go with Shinkohs then. Or Vishays, of course.
Next down on the list are the very reasonably priced Kiwamis. Similar to the Rikens, but even less resolving and a bit more smeared in the lower mids and bass, these are great for solid state stuff. Still, a very nice resistor, especially considering the price.
PRPs are, well, PRPs. VERY nice resistor for the money (What are they? Fifty cents each?) Smooth and relatively flat, they do little wrong and are very non-offensive. Very, very nice for the money, but not SOTA or even close. Simply a smart choice where a fine resistor is needed that is really cheap and will mix well with most systems. You cannot go wrong here. I like them. (But I use the Vishays in my critical applications, as previously mentioned.)
I have a few more resistors coming to check out and they'll be here in few weeks. Some Neohms and some Takmans and some Amtrans will get a listen. Those Neohms could be VERY nice. Will they beat the Vishays? And what about the Amtrans? They are getting some nice write ups, too.
We'll see...... :-)
I am undecided between the Tantalums, and VAR for my Class D Audio amp. I read one person saying the Vishay VAR was edgy and another saying extended but smooth? You know how different opinions go.
Did you think the naked VAR's had as full midrange and bass as the Tantalums? I don't want lean, but extended and smooth is nice.
Aaron
We have remarkably similar taste in resistors. List below is drawn from my own trials in several different high and low power apps. In general, carbon films tend to provide a bit of smoothing, or enhancement of musicality with some loss of transparency compared to metal films, which can tend to brightness. I have found all resistors with non-magnetic end caps to sound better than any with magnetic end caps or leads.
I have found that any exclusive application of any single type of part throughout an entire circuit can make for a coloring of sound. I believe this is what typically lends a "house sound" to most commercial equipment. Lift the lid and you'll see a single type of resistor and most caps.
I have also found that the contribution of a resistor to the overall sound of a component is most significant directly in the signal path, and even more so in the feedback loop of opamps.
In order of high frequency transparency and overall tonal fidelity, IMO:
Vishay VAR series naked Z-foil
Susumu for SMT apps
Caddock MK132
Caddock MP series (with heatsink for high power apps such as xover)
Duelund graphite
Shinkoh tantalum (sweet) (NOT Audio Note tant)
Mundorf MOX
Amtrans carbon film (sweeter)
Takman MF and CF in here somewhere
PRP
Vishay/Dale CMF
Mills ww
"cement" ww
Riken carbon film (too sweet, almost dull)
KOA Speer
Xicon
The opposite ends of the spectrum are where the differences really become significant. The Vishay VAR is quite a remarkable achievement, and worth every penny in a critical application. Avoid the bottom two; it's just not worth saving a few cents. All the middle brands are, well, in the middle.
Peace,
Tom E
If you need higher power like a tweeter pad then you can use a couple of parallel Caddock 132s or a big power Caddock and bypass with a nude Vishay. Caddocks sound grey by themselves but when byassed by a nude Vishay the resulting sound is seriously transparent. Say you need a 3.5 ohm resistor....then use a couple of 8 ohm 132s in parallel (or large 4 ohm Caddock) and use a 30 ohm Vishay in parallel also.
There are those who think paralleling resistors to be a very good thing but usually the recommendation is for all to be of the same value.
Which makes a certain amount of sense to me.
I follow the advice but have never bothered to compare paralleled resistors of different values to all being the same.
With low power speakers, especially in tweeter circuits I have routinely used MK132s with no heating at all. If I still needed a resistor in my circuit I would try the TX2575 without hesitation.
For attenuation in a 500 hz crossover I wonder how long they would last?
Paralleling resistors is going pretty far out, maybe a little too far for me. I don't doubt your word, and I understand what that might achieve, but I'll save that for later on when I've done everything else I can and still have money left. I don't mind the sound of the Caddock MP's in my xovers. I think they sound better than any of the others I tried: Duelund, Mundorf MOX (never got around to the big Mundorf's), Mills, etc.
I'm not sure what the term "gray sound" means. Let me guess: a bit mechanical, not ultimately "organic"? If that's it, I agree to some extent, but I find that a less objectionable coloration than some other types. My hearing does not extend very high any more, so perhaps I can't detect that quality in very high frequencies as well as others can. I do hear their clarity and even tonality. I love the way cymbals shimmer and ring instead of spit and hiss.
I thought the trial of Caddock MP's in a crossover was a pretty original concept. I had never seen it mentioned anywhere else. If there were a high power capacity Z-foil, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.
Peace,
Tom E
....and it was an excellent point to make sure folks know not to use only one type, so at to get a better over-all balance. That sometimes gets lost in the fog of 'what's the best' of this or that. Too much any good thing can ruin the fun.
This whole game is all about balance.
BTW, your call on those Audyn Tru-Copper caps a while back was 110% spot-on. Incredible performance for the money.
I will be doing a shoot-out between the Audyn Tru-Copper caps and the Dueleund copper CAST-PIOs in the near future. I'll report my findings, but those Duelunds better watch out, because those Audyns are really incredible, regardless of how they are priced (and their price is really amazing, too. Hope the folks at Audyn don't read this and double the price.) ;-)
Careful, Winston, I'm starting to like you when you agree with me.
I look forward to your impressions of the two caps. You seem fully cognizant of the price differential and appreciative of the Audyn TC accomplishment. They haven't raised prices yet, and now the Euro is not so strong, either.
Peace,
Tom E
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