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Hi,
I am presently using the old Hubbell 8300H, non cryo. A good outlet that is wired on it's own dedicated 20 amp line wired with the old Diamond Handiwire.
I am looking to upgrade and add another outlet and I was thinking of an Oyaide R-0, or a Cruze Masetro. If anything I think the Hubbell is a touch warm and a tad bloated in the lower region and could use a little more zip on top. Seems my system is a little warm now.
Keep in mind these things I mention are small increments and I wouldn't describe the Hubbell as overly warm and that these are minor quibbels.
I really like the build quality of the Oyaide R-0 over the Maestro but I also don't want an outlet warmer than the Hubbell.
Has anyone directly compared the Oyaide R-0 to a Hubbell 8300H that can give a comparison?
Follow Ups:
No experience with the R-0 or Maestro but I do have extensive experience with pretty much all of the Hubbells, cryoed and non-cryoed have essentially run cryoed versions of the HBL 5362 and HBL 8300H (which have a very similar sonic signature-I'm not sure I could tell them apart really-the differences are quite subtle) for the past 10 years or so.
The link will give you a bit of an idea of how I found the R-1 to compare to the Hubbells. For what it is worth, your Hubbell would benefit significantly from being cryoed. That being said, a non-cryoed R-1 is still better than a cryoed HBL 8300H and a cryoed R1 better still, at least from my perspective below. I have multiple posts in the thread relating to the comparisons:
Hey, Blake....I would agree wholeheartedly with your assessments of the R-1 and Hubbell's.
If memory serves, I may have provided one or more of your HBL5362's so many years ago. Glad you're still seeing good use with these. They were the best of their day.
You did indeed Alan! I bought that 5362 from you more than 13 years ago LOL and still have it in use here! There's a review of it here in the archives/review section. It was my first experience with anything treated cryogenically.
I'm fortunate to have a cryo vendor here in town but that 5362 led me on a bit of cryo odyssey over the ensuing years. From the receptacle on almost every piece of wire or connector in my system has been treated.
I've cryoed power cords, interconnects, speaker cables, male and female connectors, CD's, a couple of line conditioners and DVD players and razor blades and maybe a few other things that I can't recall.
It is your fault haha!
Excellent!
You're putting a lot of responsibility for your sound on your one outlet.
A single outlet change is a small increment indeed but certainly audible.
Since you bring it up, why not just select a reasonable quality audio-grade outlet that has been properly cryo-treated and preferrably via the full immersion method?
A properly cryo'ed outlet should give you the biggest performance bang for the buck outlet wise, I'd venture even if it were a $2 Home Depot outlet.
Cryo treatment will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Cryo treatment for a $2 AC outlet is simply polishing a turd. The only benefit of cryo treatment is better optimized grain structures for metals other than an OCC single crystal type. There is much more to a high performance AC outlet design than the crystalline boundaries of the base metal contacts, which in the case of cheap AC outlets, the base metal is thin and flimsy, with poor mechanical resonance control provided by both the contacts and the connector body. No matter how good the quality of cryo treatment might be, it won't improve other performance criteria.
Really The Duster?
Do you suppose that the $2 Home Depot outlet is pure junk? So inferior are the materials that even superior cryo'ing can't improve it?
Do you suppose that the $100 hospital / audio-grade outlet is that superior?
What is your listening experience with a $2 outlet that was cryo'd preferably via the full immersion method?
"Do you suppose that the $2 Home Depot outlet is pure junk? So inferior are the materials that even superior cryo'ing can't improve it?"
You don't seem to understand what cryo treatment can and cannot do in this regard. The issue is not whether cryo treatment will improve the sound of a $2 AC outlet, it's that it won't improve it enough to provide audiophile quality performance. Cryo treatment is not a magic wand. Even the intensive double-cryogenic treatment Audio Excellence AZ provides via Cryogenics International won't make a $2 AC outlet sound good enough to exclude a non-cryo'd Audio Grade AC outlet from an audiophile shopping list.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue21/cryo_international_interview.htm
"Do you suppose that the $100 hospital / audio-grade outlet is that superior?
Absolutely superior, and it's not supposition on my part. I have many years of experience evaluating various AC outlets, both cryo'd and non-cryo'd. It seems odd for one to believe a $2 AC outet can sound as good as an Audio Grade or even a Hospital Grade product simply by cryo treating it, no matter how advanced the particular cryogenic treatment method may be.
"What is your listening experience with a $2 outlet that was cryo'd preferably via the full immersion method?"
There's no need to go through the trouble of installing a cryo'd $2 AC outlet in order to evaluate it against a non-cryo'd $2 AC outlet, much less any need to compare such with a cryo'd nor non-cryo'd Audio Grade or even a non-cryo'd old-school Hospital Grade design pulled from someone's orphaned audiophile parts box.
'nuff said
After all, I perform double-cryo treatments simply to spend money, waste more hours picking up and delivering parts, and do something "different" for fun. After all, nothing you or I do is going to be as good as what Stenho does....ever. Why am I wasting my time and energy?
One thing though....you won't ever find me near a $2 receptacle. It's declasse'....gotta keep my rep.
:--}
The Duster, You never answered my question.
What did you hear with the $2 outlet that you auditioned after having it cryo-treated? Answer me that, then we can compare notes.
Tell me, in your opinion is it possible for a $100 DIY power cable properly cryo'ed able to match the or exceed the performance of a $6000 power cable?
....such extreme either/or examples to prove how many audiophiles are dancing on the head of a pin.
If you enjoy $2 wall outlets further treated by Jena Labs, then good for you. Jena herself vastly prefers the heavy-duty/spec grade Hubbell's, which cost a lot more than $2.
Don't be silly, Alan. Where did you get the idea I USE $2 outlets cryo'ed by Jena Labs?
Although, if Jena Labs handed them to me, I probably swap them in and replace my far more expensive Furutech outlets in a heartbeat.
But I'd much prefer that Jena Labs hand me the $5 20amp cryo'ed versions.
Especially since Jena Labs uses the superior full-immersion cryo'ing method as opposed to your cryo'ing vendor's inferior method.
There is no sense is discussing anything with you. Word to the wise, everyone....
Experience and/or knowledge - The death knell of paper tigers - Mess you up.
Never had any luck with Hubbells, but loved all my Oyaides. No experience with the Maestro to share. Oyaide is not warm, but once broken in, very detailed and not harsh either.
Have you tried the Oyaide R-0 which is unplated?
No.
You might consider the platinum + palladium plated Oyaide R1 Beryllium AC outlet rather than the unplated Oyaide R0 Beryllium AC outlet. Sweet treble delineation without sounding spotlit is a stellar quality of the platinum + palladium R1 Beryllium, IME. You might also consider trying different AC plugs as yet another way to tune the tonality of your audio system. Resonance control also goes hand in hand with system tuning efforts, so experimenting with various vibration control devices/methods might provide more lively treble energy, too...
Ahh Duster my old friend. I have thought about the R-1 as well, but I also seem to usually prefer unplated, but I am open to it too.
I hope someone has compared the two so I can kind of get an idea of the differences, or similarities.
BTW I found recently under a search that 10 years ago you recommended VH Flavor cords to me. I recently built a Flavor 4 with Furutech FI-28 gold end and wow it is a great match for my Class D Audio amp.
I did a comparison sometime back on the outlets your mention. Here are excerpts on my thoughts on the suspects. I included the R-1 as my comments on the R-0 were made with the R-1 as a baseline reference.
Hubbell 8300H
The Hubbell 8300H turned out to be a surprise. I was not expecting much out of it, given the far more exotic and sexier models on test here. It has good tone with vibrancy and a neutral tone. It manages to project a very deep soundstage with a slightly distant presentation. It has good high frequency extension but lacks the refinement and control of the Oyaide outlets, with a tendency to sound a bit hashy during busy mixes. It has a warmer tone in the midrange and high frequencies, with female voices having more body and less sibilance. On the downside, the outlet sounds slightly soft, with less snap and definition. Microdetail is not as good as the exotic outlets on test here. For the money, it does more things right than wrong. As an upgrade from an old and corroded outlet, this Hubbell makes a lot of sense both from the perspective of both budget and performance.
Maestro Outlet
Visually underwhelming, the Maestro outlet looks like a plain vanilla Hubbell outlet. The manufacturer claims unplated copper-brass alloy contacts, cryogenic treatment, a special coating for RFI / EMI rejection and mechanical resonance treatment. That's a mouthful for a plain jane looking outlet ! It's backstrap, mounting tabs and screws are magnetic, which is odd given the amount of thought given to the design. Right off the bat, let me state that this is an excellent outlet for the cost. The Maestro has a neutral balance with excellent resolution. Like good organic food, this is a healthy product without genetic modification or nasty chemicals. Soundstaging is closer compared to the Oyaide outlets, and all instruments have a prominence that make it easy to follow individual lines. This is a very natural sounding outlet and highly recommended if you want an outlet that does not alter the tone of your system. This Maestro should be particularly commended for lack of glare and control over the busiest of mixes. To nitpick, it has slightly less high frequency extension, and soundstage width compared to the Oyaide outlets. I like the Maestro very much. It is close to my taste in women - wholesome goodness in every bite !
Oyaide R-0
The R-0 is a special version of the R-1 which omits any plating. Like the R-1, long burn in required. The R-0 trades off some resolution and high frequency extension in favour of slightly more bloom and bigger image sizes. Users who found the R-1 too bright or thin should be quite comfortable with the R-0. Although I think the R-1 is a better outlet, the R-0 should fit into more systems without issue. As an added bonus, the R-0 is packed with Oyaide MWA-EC outlet covers.
Oyaide R-1
The R-1 is Oyaide's top of the range outlet. Contacts are made out of Beryllium Copper alloy with Platinum and Palladium plating. Contact force is especially strong. One word of caution - do not make any quick impressions of this outlet. Long burn in time is not just recommended, but mandatory. Failure to do so results in a slightly thin and very bright tone. Coming back after two weeks of use, the R-1 is much calmer and refined compared to initial evaluations carried out after just 24 hours of use. Much of my comments on the SWO-XXX apply except that the R-1 has a higher degree of control and focus. The R-1 is also slight quieter and more resolving. A drawback of the R-1 is its ruthlessly revealing nature - any change upstream or downstream is immediately noticeable.
Hi,
I read your comparisons on "Eric's Hi=Fi blog", I didn't know that was you. I got me thinking, but also wondering more too.
Comparing the Hubbell and the Oyaide R-0 do you remember which had more bloom in the bottom, and which had more extension in the top?
I also know you said about the Maestro "To nitpick, it has slightly less high frequency extension, and soundstage width compared to the Oyaide outlets."
I didn't know if that statement also meant the Oyaide R-0 which is unplated?
Thanks,
Hi,
In terms of high frequency extension, the R-0 definitely is more extended compared to the Hubbell. I would consider the bottom end bloom to be about the same, but the R-0 definitely is more controlled and tighter.
For the Maestro, yes, I thought it had less high frequency extension compared to both the R-0 and R-1.
I didn't really use the Maestro that much, but another friend who did complained that they lost a bit of grip over time. Definitely, no problem with the R-0 in that respect.
Regards
Eric
Thanks Eric,
That's exactly what I was seeking. I'm going to order an Oyaide R-0 now.
Howdy Aaron,
Eric is a good source for advice about devices he's evaluated. I have found much of what he says to be reliable and worthy of consideration. I'm glad to see his posts in Audio Asylum.
Cheers, Duster
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