|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
209.197.6.180
I have a headphone amp, a DIY, and want to add more capacitance and or change out what I have in there. Voltage is 15 volts so 16 or 25 volt caps would be fine. 470 to 1000uF. I am looking for a very low ESR and inductance. My favorite for years has been Black Gate but my supply is low and not enough of the right voltage/uF.
Any ideas? Thanks.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Follow Ups:
it helps to narrow the field and get new ideas!
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
to try out. Very different from what the sound that was in the amp, which turned out to be Silmic II. More hall detail and acoustical retrieval so far.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
and the Silmic in other areas. I have often preferred to mix caps rather than use all the same except for BG's. Though I didn't use the BG's in the digital circuitry.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I am hearing a smaller, narrower soundstage. Bass is different also, not as defined but need more burn in. And I am talking to myself here. lol
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I have used these 100+100/500v Jensens several times now that my stock of BG WKZ caps is nearly gone. I still prefer the WKZ sonically but the Jensen is good enough that I can vary other components to get the sound I want:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_jensen_radial_dual.html
I also use old Sprague Atom electrolytics in a few places especially 40uf/500v and 80uf/450v. Some folks like to bash these and they are certainly not perfect, but they do not get in the way of my enjoying music whereas many other caps like ASC motor runs and Solen film caps do.
By the way, I agree 100% with Madisonears' description of Silmic II. I bought some based on the enthusiastic review and was very disappointed. Very dark and dull, lacking in life and detail. For small, low voltage spots I prefer old Panasonic HFQ caps that are now discontinued but still available on Ebay as NOS.
motor run? I used these 6 in parallel per amp on my 6 pack mono amps and the sound is excellent. I used them vs the on board cap that Cary used via a very short heavy gage umbilical. A fluid dynamic transparent sound. I guess it also depends upon application.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Edits: 01/31/15
To my ears, ASC caps are too warm, too soft on leading edges, too loose and indistinct in the bass and rolled off in the highs. They also have a projected or forward midrange. On the positive side, ASC caps sound very smooth, warm and dynamic.
For somebody who likes the good things about the ASC caps, but finds the bad things interfere with the music, try GE 97F oil caps. They have a somewhat similar sound but the colorations are much reduced. In a couple projects, I have used a 97F as the first cap off the rectifier in a CLC filter.
Of course, opinions on sound quality vary. Some people love ASC and plop them in wherever they fit. Other people love Solens which I dislike just as much as ASC but for totally different reasons. Life would be boring if everyone had the same likes and dislikes.
if bypassed by a good poly .1. That cleaned up the grain they induced. Otherwise I have a bunch but I wouldn't use them any longer.
On the ACS, I can't stand warm and lack of bass so I am not sure about the difference in implementation. I find them exceptionally fast and transparent. I put around 450 volts on them and they are bypassed and paralleled in a group of 6.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I thought I saw that Audio Note was going to be producing (for lack of a better description,as I forgot the interview on "Enjoy the Music" TV)a
"Black Gate" replacement Cap.
The thing I'm not sure about is if they were going to available just to
Audio Note or available to the general public (One of these days,I'll have to start saving & "Bookmarking" things)
this summer when I emailed with Audio Note about the lower voltage "possible" replacement to the BG. They admitted that at this point, the BG is the best they have used. To equal it would be fine with me. The problem is, is that Audio Note charges so much. I realize that a lot of R&D costs but it isn't fun when you are paying 5 to 10 times what other caps go for.
So being selective, if they come out with a replacement, will be the the word for me. I used to use the BG's everywhere as I would pick them up on sale and also the lower voltage caps weren't that bad of a price. I still have a bunch packed away somewhere but not sure where. I counted and have around 100 right now but that doesn't mean they are the right voltage and I am not going to run them in series.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_electro.shtml
Always liked these best.
A gentleman is best defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion ... and doesn't.
Quite a step up from your standard electro cap. If you want better sound, these are worth a try. Only bettered by a film cap, (Clarity TC or Solen) which will be huge, and need to go outside the amp due to size.
Also could try making a cap "tree". Instead of a single 1000uf cap, try ten 100uf, or three 330uf. I've done this, and you will be rewarded with excellent sound. Looking at a mfg spec chart, you will see that ESR and ripple improve substantially by using multiples.
I'm a fan of more small than one big one. Quicker charge/discharge IMO
E
T
a non polar? I looks like you have them in series with the -'s together.
I have stacked Black Gate non polar in the past with great results. I hadn't thought about it though. Thanks!
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
No, I did not do non polar. Have read great things about going the non polar route however. On the left are ten 100uf, to make a 1000uf cap. I read about people doing this, so I decided to try myself. Sonics are amazing. Have read where people have replaced a cap with a much larger value,(single cap) and did not like the sound at all.
Cap on left is a Rubycon ZLG 100uf x ten.
Mfg specs:
100uf ripple 760ma impedance .065
1000uf 2480ma .013
Multiply ten 100's x ten, and compare the specs. Ten kill the single cap. Ears are very happy also, which is MOST important...
bi polar soldered together to make non polar.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Link below. Scroll down to the bottom of the page for information about the Audio Note Black Gate replacements.
I saw that some time back. I also corresponded with Audio Note some.
The thing is, so much of what they have is so expensive but I have no doubt, they will pursue this with all that they can. I have some output transformers that can be used for my dac or a preamps, double C core nickel output transformers that are excellent and use there input transformer for my dac that is built on a Audio Note dac board and modified from there.
I know that Peter, years ago, used all Black Gates in a high end TV and said he was surprised at the difference, as in improvement.
And so it goes. But I do thank you for the link!
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Fresh PS caps can bring an improvement, but increasing capacitance is not always the best strategy. Increasing voltage can yield better results. With only headphones to drive, I can't believe that you need to deliver much current. Sometimes too large a cap can actually be harmful to sonics. Do NOT use less than a 25v cap, and increasing voltage even from there can yield sonic benefits.
As already mentioned by others, Panny FM's are very high quality and an excellent value, but come in limited capacities and voltages. Their leads are magnetic, which I believe is a deal breaker for sound. Panny FR has slightly better specs, but also magnetic leads. Panny FC's are outdated and don't sound good. The FM's are okay, but can be a bit bright. FR's are about the same. For larger values, Panny TSHA are decent.
The best sounding 'lytic caps, by far, are still BG's of any grade. No way around it. Specs don't mean squat when you open your ears and listen to music. Nichicon FG is getting close, but still not the same. Silmics can be rather dull and closed in. Mundorf is very good if somewhat overpriced, but not available in smaller values. I have unsuccessfully tried to get Parts Connexion to approach Mundorf about making some smaller value caps to replace BG's.
Low ESR and inductance are not the only aspects that yield better performance, but are worthwhile goals. One way to lower ESR is use more caps in parallel, or parallel a small value film cap. That is an art in itself, and can yield variable results.
Peace,
Tom E
and they said they still hadn't found anything that could match BG's. I remember emailing with Peter of Audio Note UK and he felt using BG's near there voltage made the best use of them and they operated better there. I have a steady 15 volts, no surge and have used BG's in 16 volt for that situation but am now down to 4 470uF 16 volt. I have many of the 6.3 range, which are good for portable amps and daps but my assortment of 25 volt is limited. I have the high voltage non polar for my tube stuff but that is for the tube stuff. :^)
I didn't know that the FM and FC had steel leads, too bad. Maybe some FG's.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Hoosier has it right. Most of the upper end Panasonic caps will outperform your Blackgates on every spec including longevity.
With a 15V supply go 25V caps, 16V is too close.
As for that silly article, well it's just silly.
Dan Santoni
Hi John,
Low ESR/Impedance caps for B+ or decoupling locations you really should try in Panasonic the FM series, they have much lower ESR than the FC, and if available the FR series which is the next generation of the FM but with a longer service life, in Nichicon the HE series is also very good and has a greater range of sizes available.
Regards
HA
My experience was for replacements in a SS amp. I noted a much blacker background after installing. Keep in mind I was replacing 15 year old caps.
The nichicon golds are also a step up IMO.
I was going to say Panasonic FC, which I put into my Musical Fidelity X-CANS (V1), but then I found this info:
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html
Maybe interesting to read.
(I still like the panasonic FC's though :-) )
I have tried Silmic II's as NFB caps in a very revealing SS amp design, and it made the sound thick and dull. Highs and all detail simply disappeared. Panny FM's sounded better, but BG STD grade was easily best of all. Easily. This was part of a group buy/build at DIY Audio, and every other participant agreed that the BG, despite considerable extra expense, was worthwhile improvement over Silmic II.
I recently removed Silmic II coupling caps from my Marantz SACD player and installed BG STD. Huge improvement, with substantial increase in detail and air, without any drawbacks.
I'm not saying it can't possibly happen, but why did this one person prefer Silmic's over BG? His testing methodology appears rigorous, but it's still all subjective. I also saw that N Pass favored Silmic's, but I don't know what he was comparing to. Some Pass electronics can have a bit of a SS edge, and Silmic's may compliment that. I admire N Pass (owned a Threshold 400A amp in the 70's and 80's), but I don't accept his opinion as gospel.
I have never heard of any modder pulling BG's out of equipment to replace with Silmic! Why not?
Peace,
Tom E
If you use a Silmic and put a WA quantum chip on it and bypass it with my modified .33 Wima (put in correct orientation and damped).....then you have great sound. Yes, the Silmic by itself is slow and not detailed. You have to try the WA Quantum chips.....makes the Silmic sound like a Teflon! Then the Wima adds the little extra air....amazing combo. Still a Blackgate is better to start with or a film cap....but if you need the capacitance this combo is really nice.
I tried putting a small Wima in parallel with the Silmic, and it sounded very strange, almost phasey on some musical tones. Never heard anything so artificial come from my system, hope to never again. The same small cap across a Panny FM had no such resonance distortion and did improve the sound a bit, but it was still pretty "edgy" and bright.
Okay, I'll bite: what the heck is a WA quantum chip?
By your "modified Wima," I assume you mean where you remove the steel leads and attach copper? What a pain in the butt! In critical signal areas, I just avoid Wima MKP altogether if I can. FKP is actually a decent cap, but limited sizes available. Amtrans caps are superb, as are most polystyrene's with non-magnetic leads.
Peace,
Tom E
Modified .33 Wima
See link:
Wherever you go there you are.
Tom E, you did not follow Ric Schultz recipe to have great sound from this combo, hence your result; "it sounded very strange".
WA quantum chips are amazing.
See link:
Wherever you go there you are.
I refuse to consider any product with the word quantum or magic in its name. I don't care who recommends them, especially hacks at Stereo Times who can barely write a coherent sentence. (Is this guy writing for Palin these days?) I respect Ric Schultz, but we'll part ways on this point. If a 'lytic cap and a paralleled film cap resonate, no kind of chip or super sticker is going to stop it.
And if he wants to solder new leads on caps, more power to him! I agree that the steel leads sound like crap.
I do not contend that anyone who uses and believes in these or similar products is wrong in any way. I choose to not partake.
Peace,
Tom E
"I do not contend that anyone who uses and believes in these or similar products is wrong in any way. I choose to not partake."
Boy do I understand! If the choice is sanity or sound the obvious answer is, er, ah... sanity by a thin margin? Now I do have some stuff in my system that seems to make it sound better but I don't know just why (yet) but at least I know that I don't know.
What most of this stuff has in common is an abject lack of supporting data and an appeal to those who have that old used cow magnet taped to their car's gas line!
A life squandered in various electronic industries has taught me that if you don't have at least corrolated measurements then you are just groping in the dark. That's the way of it. Now of course that doesn't mean that you might not find something pleasing, but you probably don't know why.
Rick
If that's the case, you're missing out on the best damn stylus cleaner never invented for that job!
I loved "Careful with that cap, Eugene", by the way. Good one!
n/t
cost too much and have to be the best. . . .
kidding.
I have pulled them from equipment that I not using any longer and now that I think about it, I have some that I know has some good BG's and may as well take them out.
I have used them for years and still have around 60 or 70 but not enough in 25 volt. I may try my 16 volt 470 non polar as this is a 15 volt regulated circuit and having used them close to voltage before, know they will be fine.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I know the FC has been popular for some time and frankly, all caps require burn in time/forming and if that is not given then I don't think a review of caps is valid.
I am wondering if there are any more current recommendations.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Are you considering the Elna Silmics he says come out on top (even over the Black Gate) for him? I have read that Nelson Pass seems to think highly of the sound of the Silmic.
There's a guy on AudioKarma who does listening tests to various electrolytics in a piece of SS Marantz gear. He liked Elna Silmics best too. A search of AK should turn that up for you, if you're interested.
I've used Black Gate in the past, along with the Panasonic FM, or FC when the correct FM value wasn't available. Based on the recommendation of Nelson Pass, and the AK comparison article, I've bought Silmics to try in my next few projects.
Good luck with your search.
I know I have some around here somewhere. I have hundreds of caps in so many types from oil, to teflon but of course what i need here are the electrolytics. The thing with the Black Gates is that they take a long time for form and some people, even after a few hundred hours, give up and conclude they aren't as good as some say. I have done that to only put them back in the circuit and let them work away. They can take many hundreds of hours to the point that some will say it is the person adjusting and not the cap but I have used a control to compare them to, in another amp, and they do change, for the better.I am thinking of socketing, with very low profile tight sockets, my map to try out different caps. The amp is very revealing and changes sound with resistors or any caps, to the point that you don't have to squint your ears to hear the difference. :^)
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Edits: 01/28/15
Me too
here is some more interesting info
extensibly and has what I would call "extreme" knowledge of the sound and application. He doesn't like the Silmic at all. Feeling that take rather than give to the music. The definition go down and the bass quality is decreased.
Also he doesn't like the FR and feels they are not a replacement and the older version for audio, is better.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Thanks, I've used Black Gates and the Panasonic FC, I think I'll stick with the later as I like them, readily avaible and affordable.
the FC is one of his favorites. I have them in a different amp right now and they do really well in all areas, IMO.
Black Gates are too expensive and hard to get to be practical.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
on Saturday.
It's all good. I am going to keep the caps at 470uF plus bypass for + and - on each channel. Right now they are 220uF X 4 total. So I am double the capacitance but I like the response of the amp, fast and transparent.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901 balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, Hifiman HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. All phones balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: