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In Reply to: RE: Sporadic thoughts. posted by Herbie on January 25, 2015 at 18:58:28
I said "firmly coupled" - I didn't say spikes. In fact I use my own BlackPods, which I find better than spikes. I've had 3 pairs of Maggies over a 25 year period, and I've tried various stands/isolation techniques/etc. I have not tried Herbies sliders, but I have tried some of his other products and don't feel like going down that path.
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Seems like BlackPods should work superbly under Maggies. BlackPods are functionally much closer to firm-yet-compliant dBNeutralizer-imbedded Gliders than they are to rigid spikes. Providing for being excellently "firmly coupled" as opposed to being rubbery/unfirm or rigidly coupled like spikes, BlackPods also provide for the vibrational "decoupling" interface between speaker and floor, as Gliders do.Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab
Edits: 01/26/15
You are right that Blackpods are superb under Maggies, but wrong about how they work, or why. Blackpods are a hard coupling device, not a decoupling or firm-yet-compliant device (whatever that means? Slim-yet-fat?, rich-yet-poor?). You see, I've actually tested a variety of Herbie's products, both bought and borrowed. But as far as I know, Herbie has never touched a Blackpod so this might be why he doesn't know how they work.
Hi, Bob. My tentative endorsement of BlackPods is based on the website information about them and word-of-mouth that they are effective isolation devices. Also a lot of past experimentation and prototype work with products using similar approaches as the BlackPods do, some eerily similar, some of these using Gabon ebony instead of composite material, using different kinds of balls and different constrained layering materials. Though I haven’t touched BlackPods myself, I don’t think I’m totally in left field. I said your product provides for being “firmly coupled.” Right?By your reply, I assume that the main body material of the BlackPods is a hard material, perhaps something closer to Gabon ebony than dBNeutralizer. Some hard materials, especially composite materials, are lossy and can absorb micro-vibration, Black Diamond Racing Cones for instance. Graphite also absorbs some micro-vibration, though that material imparts a characteristic sonic signature. Anyway, materials like these can firmly couple without being as rigidly coupled as metal spikes.
A compliant material can be relatively hard or relatively soft. For example, an ink eraser is relatively hard, yet compliant. dBNeutralizer, by the way, is much firmer and harder than the grungebuster Dots and damping sheet that you’ve purchased from Herbie’s Audio Lab. (Grungebuster is not intended or recommended for supporting loudspeakers.)
I think the part of my comments that caused disagreement is regarding the “decoupling” aspect. I didn’t refer to BlackPods as a decoupling device but just mentioned they “provide for” the decoupling interface between speaker and floor. BlackPods use constrained layer damping using an elastomer. Because elastomers are compliant, this achieves a factor of decoupling to at least some degree. If the BlackPod’s blue layer of material is an elastomer–and apparently not a micro-thin layer--this factor might be substantial and quite beneficial. The idea of diodes also is to achieve some of the same functionality that Gliders do by preventing speaker-generated vibrations from reverberating from the floor back up the footers the way they came–so at least in a way achieving a de-coupling in that regard.
Though employing different approaches, I think the functionality of BlackPods and dBNeutralizer Gliders are not that far apart. Maybe BlackPods are functionally closer to spikes, maybe closer to Gliders. I don’t know, but it seems their functionality is a hybrid somewhere in-between the two. Not necessarily any hows or whys but just their functionality. I think neither BlackPods nor Gliders completely couple or completely decouple. As mentioned in a previous post, these terms are often inter-related with different aspects open to varied interpretation.
I’m not trying to pick or prolong an argument or parse definitions, just hoping to find some common ground. BTW, I will soon have a hands-on feeling for BlackPods, as a friend in San Antonio who has them under a couple of his rack components has invited me over for a listen, and a beer.
Steve
Herbie’s Audio Lab
Edits: 01/27/15
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