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In Reply to: RE: Running 2 Romex 10 gauge circuits thru the wall 20 feet posted by jea48 on November 24, 2014 at 09:51:54
it sounds like you read up on codes. Can you please show me where it says romex needs to be secured within 12" of a box? It has been 6" for many years....
Follow Ups:
NEC 2011
Art 334
334.30Quote:
..... and within 300mm (12") of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.
You just got used to stapling the NM cable close to the box because most Romex rope pullers drill the holes through the studs not far above the top of the outlet boxes to save on wire when daisy chaining in and out of boxes. An inch here and inch there adds up to feet in short order when wiring a house. Especially with the price of copper the last 10 or so years.
Edits: 11/24/14
I asked you a loaded question. Sorry. It is up to each state to adopt or alter the NEC codes. Every state is different. I wanted to get you to use your head and leave your ego behind for a minute. In my response I tried to deal with what really happens and not the codes. DO you think it might be a good idea to find out what state he is from before explaining the rules? It is 6" from each box in Washington and will probably be for a long time.
It is not right, but I will explain how laws can be developed. Used to be that 1 ground stake was required in this state pounded in most of the way. One day an inspector tripped over it and sued the state. Now they require two ground rods pounded in below the surface.
AHJ
aren't we here to help each other? Your response is very childish and what I am used to in this asylum. How is that friendly? I would think you would appreciate experience..
aren't we here to help each other? Your response is very childish and what I am used to in this asylum. How is that friendly? I would think you would appreciate experience..
"Here to help each other?" Really? You, here to help?
"How is that friendly?" LOL, .....
> >
Let's go back to the start.
My response to the OP,Posted by jea48 (A) on November 24, 2014 at 09:51:54
In Reply to: Running 2 Romex 10 gauge circuits thru the wall 20 feet posted by wsill on November 23, 2014 at 16:40:03:
Bored holes through studs are a very good support and meets NEC Code. Holes shall be bored 1 3/4" from the face to protect the cable from screws or nails from damaging the cable by the installation of wallboard/wall covering.A staple is required within 12" of the outlet box, and if run parallel along framing no farther than every 4-1/2' apart. Be careful when using staples do not damage the outer sheath of the cable. Snug is all that is needed.
Note I referenced NEC Code.> >
You responded to my post,
Posted by cloudwalker (A) on November 24, 2014 at 12:27:17
it sounds like you read up on codes. Can you please show me where it says romex needs to be secured within 12" of a box? It has been 6" for many years....
6" per NEC Code? No, never has been since at least as far back as 1968 as I recall Per NEC Code.
> >My response to you,
Posted by jea48 (A) on November 24, 2014 at 13:19:22
In Reply to: RE: Running 2 Romex 10 gauge circuits thru the wall 20 feet posted by cloudwalker on November 24, 2014 at 12:27:17:
NEC 2011
Art 334
334.30
Quote:..... and within 300mm (12") of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.
You just got used to stapling the NM cable close to the box because most Romex rope pullers drill the holes through the studs not far above the top of the outlet boxes to save on wire when daisy chaining in and out of boxes. An inch here and inch there adds up to feet in short order when wiring a house. Especially with the price of copper the last 10 or so years.
My answer seemed pretty civil to me. I was referring to NEC Code, You asked where I found that in the code. I supplied the answer. I was not being a smart ass.> >
And then your reply......
In Reply to: RE: Running 2 Romex 10 gauge circuits thru the wall 20 feet posted by jea48 on November 24, 2014 at 13:19:22:
I asked you a loaded question. Sorry. It is up to each state to adopt or alter the NEC codes. Every state is different. I wanted to get you to use your head and leave your ego behind for a minute. In my response I tried to deal with what really happens and not the codes. DO you think it might be a good idea to find out what state he is from before explaining the rules? It is 6" from each box in Washington and will probably be for a long time.
"I asked you a loaded question. Sorry." No that was not a loaded question. In hindsight, IT was a deceptive question..... And I truly believe that is how you meant it.
"It is up to each state to adopt or alter the NEC codes. Every state is different. I wanted to get you to use your head and leave your ego behind for a minute."
"Ego" huh?Now if you had said your State, Washington State, that is the Code there I would have replied, "AHJ has the final say". And that local and state governing bodies can amend NEC Code if they so choose. In fact some cities prohibit the use of NM cable for power wiring.
"DO you think it might be a good idea to find out what state he is from before explaining the rules?"
Actually I did and do before responding to a posted message. Saves a lot time, especially if they do not live in the USA.....
When I do respond and quote Code I will say NEC Code. If I think local AHJ Codes may be different as a rule I will state so. I will admit this time I didn't and you jumped right out of the wood work!As for the OP,
wsill - Music Lover/Audiophile
Atlanta, Georgia, United States
And the support rule in Atlanta, Georgia, is within 12" from a box, from what I found. That is at least in 2009 when the 2008 NEC Code was adopted.
I Googled Washington State Electrical Code and could not find an amendment to NEC Art 334.30. I did find amendments restricting its use as well as the exposed amount of NM cable allowed in a basement below the above main floor structure. Maybe you could please supply the official government AHJ Web Site for the amendment to NEC Code Art 334.30 stating the max of 6" support from a box rule were you live. It's not that at this point I don't believe you, I just would like to know for sure. Call it curiosity.
> >
My reply to you,
Did your mother not breast feed you when you were a baby? nt.
Posted by jea48 (A) on November 24, 2014 at 14:02:29
I thought my response was quite appropriate.
You seem to suffer from an inferiority complex.
And you say you just want to help and are being friendly.
> >And your response,
now this is the response I expectedPosted by cloudwalker (A) on November 24, 2014 at 14:29:48
In Reply to: Did your mother not breast feed you when you were a baby? nt. posted by jea48 on November 24, 2014 at 14:02:29:
aren't we here to help each other? Your response is very childish and what I am used to in this asylum. How is that friendly? I would think you would appreciate experience..
Do you think you are unfairly treated by other members on this forum? If so maybe you should ask yourself why."I would think you would appreciate experience.."
LOL, experience? Pray tell?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Now beings you opened up this can of worms lets take a look at your response to the OP, wsill.
Posted by cloudwalker (A) on November 23, 2014 at 17:20:01
In Reply to: Running 2 Romex 10 gauge circuits thru the wall 20 feet posted by wsill on November 23, 2014 at 16:40:03:
I am a retired electrician. your studs must be exposed to consider drilling holes through them? That is the best way. When wiring a house the wires are usually separated into runs of 3 or 4 wires. If it is a simple as drilling holes through 15 more studs make 2 runs. When I would run antenna wire through the walls I used to avoid AC runs because of EMF interference. Why 2 runs? It will probably be easier to have a 2 gang box (2 receptacles). I would be more concerned with EMF than vibrations.
A retired electrician.
As an electrician you should have mentioned to wsill he should hire a qualified licensed electrician from his area to install the new branch circuits.That a layman has no business inside an electrical panel.
That Code is not meant as a how to or instruction manual.
You should have pointed out the electrician will know the electrical codes for his area.
Such as where and how the AHJ in his area allows NM cable to be installed.
If the OP wants the install to meet the electrical code for his State, county, city, town, just what the electrician will have to do to meet code. For one, pull a permit?
His new dedicated branch circuits may need to be AFCI protected.
The duplex receptacles may need to be tamper resistant. Forget audio grade duplex receptacles. That is unless he can find audio grade child safety tamper resistant duplex receptacles.And finally,
Why 2 runs? It will probably be easier to have a 2 gang box (2 receptacles). I would be more concerned with EMF than vibrations.
2 gang box,
Code? Yes. (Should I state as per NEC Code to cover my butt with you?)
Good idea? well, so far the OP has been told to keep the 2 dedicated branch circuit lines separated from one another after they leave the electrical panel and now you are telling him to install them in a common 2G rough-in box. Go figure. I personally would install each dedicated branch circuit in separate rough-in boxes spaced at least 6" or 8" apart from one another.I would also mention if the OP has audio equipment that uses wall warts the problem with 2 duplex, receptacles, 4plex, installed in a 2 gang box depending on the size of the wall wart it will partially cover one of the receptacles of the other duplex receptacle. That is why I would recommend 1 gang rough-in boxes. Even if more than one duplex will be installed on the dedicated branch circuits.
Best regards
Edits: 11/26/14 11/26/14
I read your post but will not add anything more to this simple question
Jim
and that's what happened here. Several folks report though that metal staples across Romex do bad things. I am not here to suggest another way just that you keep it in mind.
ET
interesting that you bring up wire staples. As electricians, we try very hard not to "overdrive" but the only thing we really fear is shorting. Can overdriving do anything else?
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