|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
63.142.209.123
In Reply to: RE: Insulating AC Outlets from Wall Vibration posted by rick_m on November 11, 2014 at 18:04:04
I think this is indeed the wrong asylum for me. I use my head too much. I need proof sometimes. If you want to be credible sometimes you need more proof than "because I said so", There are a couple big holes in the vibration theory. 1) some people (including me) do not listen to music loud enough for vibration to be a problem 2) the biggest problem area hasn't been addressed...that is the wiring inside the cabinet between the crossover and drivers. 3) I am a retired builder. If you were really into vibrations, it would be easy before sheet rocking to dampen the wiring and walls (with insulation) but I have not heard of anyone doing that. And each electrical box is nailed to a solid stud and mostly free of the sheetrock. And I am sure buying an area rug is cheaper, more effective and an easier way to dampen things.
Good luck to you all. I still believe the best things to improve sound systems is to buy quality gear to start with and position it correctly in the room. The one "tweak" I believe in is a voltage stabilizer if voltage is a problem.
Follow Ups:
"I think this is indeed the wrong asylum for me. I use my head too much. I need proof sometimes. If you want to be credible sometimes you need more proof than "because I said so"
-Well, I wasn't attempting to prove anything, merely suggesting possible mechanisms that you might not have considered.
"There are a couple big holes in the vibration theory. 1) some people (including me) do not listen to music loud enough for vibration to be a problem"
-And you know this how? You may well be correct, however at this point that is just an assumption.
2) the biggest problem area hasn't been addressed...that is the wiring inside the cabinet between the crossover and drivers.
-Maybe not but that seems to be quite a different issue to me. I think it's worth paying attention to and I have when tinkering with speakers. But that just isn't what the OP was focusing on.
3) I am a retired builder. If you were really into vibrations, it would be easy before sheet rocking to dampen the wiring and walls (with insulation) but I have not heard of anyone doing that. And each electrical box is nailed to a solid stud and mostly free of the sheetrock. And I am sure buying an area rug is cheaper, more effective and an easier way to dampen things.
-My sense of it is that the post was only concerned with vibrations at the outlet. And considering that the sheetrock is nailed to the studs I would expect it all to vibrate probably with some rather complex modes over frequency.
Good luck to you all. I still believe the best things to improve sound systems is to buy quality gear to start with and position it correctly in the room.
-That seems darn reasonable to me. Well, except that there may multiple reasonables...
The one "tweak" I believe in is a voltage stabilizer if voltage is a problem.
-OK
-I'm not clear if it's AA in general or the tweaks forum that you don't care for. Actually I rarely participate in "Tweaks" myself. But in AA in general there is actually a tremendous depth of knowledge, skills and experience but you have to be able to tolerate some hogwash, after all this IS an asylum.
One thing that helps me here, and in most other situations as well, is to accept the observation and ignore the explanation. I developed the approach in my working life and it has proven very effective. It's largely an application of the Will Roger's bit that it's not what you know that's the problem, it's what you know that ain't so.
I think it would be grand if you decide to hang around, but regardless I wish you well, it was fun.
Regards, Rick
what forums do you post in? To me every asylum has some people who think that putting others down proves them right. Especially this asylum. That is not now I ever am. These groups should help each other. This is a great resource. I have many things I am interested in. Audio gear is just a part of my life. But there is so much to learn. I have some questions for you. Do you think there is any need for separates still? And do you think tube gear is really better or just different?
Cloudwalker,
128-page color catalogs are typically printed in one huge continuous run after a production executive has taken critical color-balance decisions to ensure that each page will at least look reasonable, even if none of the other 127 appear exceptional. It's somewhat similar when Japanese electronics engineers design their large, powerful surround-sound amplifiers that offer many processing effects, built-in DACs and full-remote control. The engineers must match the competitive feature requirements of the marketing dept. and build to a cost decreed by their accountants; it's remarkable how successful they generally are in delivering good, broad-tiered compromise in performance at a reasonable price. It's nevertheless hardly surprising that the close proximity of many complex audio and video circuit boards in a contained area so close to the heat, vibration and magnetic field generated by a powerful internal power supply (Toroidal transformer) degrades the performance of the unit.
While separate DACs and amplifiers introduce the added cost for interconnects and power cables, yet two-channel immediately sounded better than five-channel and the external DAC was a great improvement in clarity. Dumping the Denon amplifier and buying separates made by dedicated perfectionists and a Mac Mini made it possible to quit the wall-of-digital-sound. So, speaking for myself only, separates are where the audiophile world starts and their alternative is an economic compromise for the consumer mass market in terms of sound quality. At the end of the day, the opinions of others are interesting, sometimes valuable, but testing with our own ears is the only sure way forward. This initially translates to taking a calculated risk after being convinced by sufficient breadth of repeated individual recommendation.
So, yes, there certainly is a need for separates as long as there are audiophiles in my view...
DG
People forget that DD n DTS are all set decoders. Your can not be certified unless you use factory circuit designs. Thus for stereo options are limited.
Uncle Stu,
You are absolutely right. It's interesting, however, that in playing a collection of non-Blu-ray movies/ series (all of which which were bought with the highest available sound option such as DTS at the time), have never been aware of any loss of audio satisfaction from movie sounds tracks after switching to two-channel, perhaps because the improvements from tweaks/ separates more than compensated for that loss of processing...
DG
What I meant to say was that with DTS and DD the processing options are limited in order to meet their standards. Sorry. Thus for high end two channel playback there are much more options available for the skilled digital designer.
In particular waveshaping: Oh we can all say the typical audiophile prefers one algorithm, but live music may incorporate many algorithms., but no one DAc has allowed such switching, with the exception of the old Ultra Analog DAC chip and on that one only the Spectral allowed user switching
"what forums do you post in?"
Actually none regularly. But the ones I scan daily are General, Amp/Pre, Critics, Digital, PC, Cables and Tweaks. And I review the New Posts list daily.
I am far more interested in audio and audiophiles than in sports, wars, stocks or politicos so this is my daily "infotainment" as I don't do TV. Naturally I love music also but I don't care to read about it, it's better listened to...
Besides enjoying music at home I am fascinated by the subtleties that we can perceive and how little energy they need in the big scheme of things to mess up the experience. Of course that's concentrated on these fora because folks that don't notice or aren't bothered by such things have better things to do and don't hang out here.
Being a lifelong, hard-bitten electronics guy, I find the audiophile struggles and angst fascinating and personal because I care about the results as much as anyone. It really IS amazing (and frustrating) what we can hear and I believe trying to sift out causation is a noble effort. To me AA is like a huge engineering lab with a few good Sr. Engineers, some very knowledgable specialists and a slew of technicians whose skills run the gamut.
So it's sort of like the interesting parts of work, but without any responsibilities or deadlines. Ah retirement is sweet... Sure, some of the mystical bullshit can grow old as can the advertising from some vendors. But the price is right and buried in the user speculations and arm-waving, but ALWAYS unspecified or quantified vendor claims are some interesting nuggets to consider.
One survival mechanism that I've developed over my decades in electronics is to trust the observation but ignore the explaination. Decoupling the two is just magic. Most of the time... If you are at all interested in making AA part of your life consider trying it.
Regards, Rick
Cloudwalker,
Did test enclosing the hookup wires (between cross-overs and drivers) with cotton wrapped in UltraPerm 80 (hydrogen-annealed MuMetal) but that diminished both dynamics and clarity.
DG
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: