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Have been searching to find a solution to the roughness in the sound than only seemed to become more acute as the system became more resolving. So I started mining previous posts here and came across one by Frank Lock entitled the 'Teflon Tape Tube Tweak' of 7-10-2011. Frank reported good results from wrapping Teflon tape around the pins of tubes.
Having a tube buffer (an iTube whose pins are incaacessible) and noting that he found a source stating that the melting point of teflon tape is 648° F (342° C), I decided to wrap the white bakelite base of the tube with Teflon tape instead. As the picture shows, the tape does not touch the glass tube.
The result of decreasing the tube vibration was surprising. The sound-stage emerged upwards and outwards in a substantial expansion with more solid note imagery. The sound amplification for the same volume setting of music through the tube buffer was much increased. The long present roughness was gone and the tone has finally become unflawed, pure and musical. So often the use of Teflon tape around AC alters sound by eliminating certain frequencies so that there's change without overall improvement. Not in this case. I can only hear several related benefits without compromising trade-off.
This is not my tweak, yet I wanted to share a productive variant.
Follow Ups:
Amen, thats the ticket
Bill
Have you (or has anyone else) ever tried wrapping a tube base made of metal, like for example the Sylvania 6SN7W? Descriptions of the character of that tube suggest wrapping might be beneficial. I use humongous 7241 triodes in the output stage of my amplifier. They get about as hot as any tube ever used in audio and have metal bases. I wonder whether I can get away with wrapping the base without shortening tube life, just for an experiment, and whether the glue on the tape would hold up to such heat. (Filaments draw 7.5A per tube!)
per a suggestion i found here i use copper tape held secure with a tube damper.
i overlap the copper and solder at overlap. seems to work well. THe electrical changes seems to add extension and detail to tubes.
ON smaller tubes (9 pin) i place the tape from the bottom to the edge of first mica sheet (bottom). Keeps heat dissipation up.
On EL 34s makes them sound more like a 6550.
should have added on power tubes one pin is connected to metal base,.hence the warnings on last run of GE 6550s. i dont connect this wire so an EL34 doesnt quite have the sharpness of the 6550
metal bases were put in for a reason, which for now escapes me.
You mention metal base 6sn7, but there have been metal base 5ar4, EL34. Sovtek even made a 6550 with a phenolic base.
i believe it has something to do with capacitances among the pins and their leads.
if you are worried make sure the teflon is wound between the base and lower mica sheet. Most heat is generated from the plates which lie between the top n bottom sheets. Keep the glass area between the mica sheets clear to maintain heat dissipation
You can also use PEARL coolers, but they tend to roll off the top end a bit.
Lew,
Have no comparable heat-exposure but why not cut a narrow strip of yellow Gas Teflon Tape and wrap it twice around just one metal base and observe how it fares over a couple of days? If no problem, go to full width and wrap three or four times on the same one and observe/ listen. If no problem after several days, apply system-wide. There undoubtedly will be a a sound improvement, and it will likely be substantial from damping several tubes.
DG
"So often the use of Teflon tape around AC alters sound by eliminating certain frequencies"
What specific frequencies are you referring to and how does tape eliminate them?
Ubiquitous Biscuit,
A roll of yellow Teflon Tape for Gas costs $4.39 + sales tax here today in The U.S. and perhaps a little more more in Canada. Rather than wasting both our time on your continued attempt at stalking, why not invest in a roll, put some on the base of the prongs of your amplifier and answer the question with your own ears? That's a rhetorical question of course. The ill-intent of stalkers repels the natural human instinct to help in others and leaves self-help as the only way forward. Good luck!
DG
of constrained layer damping is well known. 3M makes a variety.of products, as well as Marigo. Wrapping teflon tape works similarly.
defining the exact effect is difficult as it is dependent on layers applied and tension used. It is also dependent on tube used
(make). If you ever disassemble a tube, grid windings and gauges can vary considerably. Couple that with.mica sheet configuration, and huge variables abound.
While Dupont mentions a larger mass molded Teflon device, perhaps for larger scale non-audiophile applications, the Dupont Teflon PTFE Properties Handbook includes Teflon as an effective vibration control material with excellent vibration dampening properties both at sonic and ultrasonic frequencies (see PDF file download link below):
-snip-
Miscellaneous
Molded TeflonŽ PTFE fluoropolymer resins have excellent vibration dampening properties both at sonic and ultrasonic frequencies. Installations for this purpose have been very successful. The thickness of material required must be sufficient to absorb the energy produced and is usually determined experimentally.
-snip-
Duster,
Had previously installed a Marigo Audio White VTS Tuning Dot on each removable RAM chip of the computer that plays ripped tracks from an external drive and they caused a nice increase in musical detail.
Today I inserted a narrow single strip of Teflon tape between the side edge and the retaining clip of each chip and heard a 300% greater improvement. For those of us playing music out of our computers this is a most rewarding application.
DG
Just saw this post. Do you really mean to say that the sound was 3-fold better because of a piece of teflon tape? When I see statements like that, I have to think that the sound was fairly poor or mediocre to start with, with noticeable deficits in frequency response and obvious distortion. Was that the case?
Lew,
The threefold improvement was in relation to the initial audible, but small, improvement contributed by a Marigo Audio White VTS Tuning Dot on each RAM chip.
DG
many plastics have excellent damping properties. 3M manufectures.many as does Du Pont.
The 3M tube dampeners i mentioned was left over from some aerospace project which got canned. As such, it was unfortunately a limited availibility product. In examining other 3M products, the closest i can find (limited resources) is the substrate used in their VHB tapes, clear substrate, red backing tape. Very sticky, though, and definitely heat sensitive, as was.original tube dampers. It worked fine on small signal tubes, though i would avoid using them on power tubes (they melt).
I believe they are a polyurethane construction, FWIW. They have a phenonenal ability to stretch and then recover, probably an explanation for their damping abilities.
FWIW and YMMV
Try wrapping teflon tape on your volume control and selector switch knob. I prefer the old 3M clear urethane tube dampeners set so they barely touch the faceplate. They add a degree of clarity which can be surprising.
O rings work but not as well.
Uncle Stu,
Applying your suggestion, I substituted a wrapping of yellow Gas Teflon Tape (a dozen times each) around the spindles of the amplifier selector and volume controls for the manufacturer's foam left against the front face-plate and re-attached the three knobs. The increase in clarity was indeed most unexpected. Thank you.
Substituting that tape for the cork between the interior of the amplifier case and the Interconnect input unit brought another comparable improvement in revealed fine detail definition.
I continue to be indebted to your OLD tweak of 10-1-14 re. substituting brass for ferrous screws on speakers since that led me into further substantial sound improvements from substituting nylon for stainless-steel screws on the amplifier, DAC, its external power supply, and tube buffer.
DG
so i tried some wraps i had on hand on my output transformers on my st-70. weird how this stuff works. i just step back and am surprised each time.
sometimes nothing happens like when I moved these shungite pyramids around on top of different things. then i just put three of them on top of an outboard power supply for a mofo v-lps phono pre and bing - and at first i thought i wasted a whole $10 on them. lol.
i tried this as well, substituting screws on transformers on my Hagerman preamp and phono preamp for an increase in holographic presence. whew - sounds impressive. lol.replaced the thick screw/nut on the ttorroidal transformer in my LittleDot headphone amp with a brass screw /w cork top & bottom. payoff was a more colorful sound and could follow music threads better - or at least it was more fun to follow them.
All for ~$6.oo
Thanks, Stu
Edits: 11/05/14
no thanks needed, but i do appreciate it.
just glad at least you and DG are using the few tweaks i've noticed over the years.
tuff as hell to get those screws of the cornet's transformer - but i did. what did you use to secure 'em? and the screws were hacked on the slots. where there is a will there is a way. got the brass screws on there. not complaining, just a good feeling of accomplishment. ;-) also a picture of the copper tape/damper on the rectifier.
Uncle Stu + Ringwear,
Shame for the false 'Stainless Steel' that lingers in its hole while 'Brass' of 'Audiophilia' is on the march for Tone:-)
(..."Shame for the false Etruscan who lingers in his home while Porsena of Clusium is on the march for Rome.")
DG
Must it be yellow tape? Does it matter which direction it is wound, CW or CCW?
Peace,
Damp Garlic
Since heat is an issue inside many components, I use yellow Gas Teflon Tape on the assumption that it has the highest temperature rating and have done so in lengths, not circles. Direction is an issue with signal over wire rather than damping material.
I'm not questioning the tweak, I am interested in the missing frequencies. It's a relevant question and I thought it would interest the community if you could shed some light.
Thanks
in a thread on tubes (link below).
Not using any big tubes these days to experiment with, so...haven't and
am hesitant about trying with small tubes.
More interested in the "seating" aspect than the damping aspect.
BTW - always appreciate your posts (and have)!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Musetap,Many thanks. Shall be daily inspecting the condition of the Teflon tape and the small tube.
Also followed Audiolover 718's posting of 11-27-2011 about lining the joins of the bottom, sides and back of his ARC Prea-amp with Teflon tape by similarly lining those of my LFD LE4 Integrated Amp (pictured). He reported that it made his sound-stage explode. In my case it tightened the sound imagery of music from the tube buffer and much increased both pereceived amplification and the sound-stage of audio from the CD/DVD player and TV cable box to my considerable surprise. This improvement occurred despite the fact that I had long ago insulated the internal parts of the amplifier from the case with a layer of cork a sixteenth-of-an-inch thick. Maybe somebody can venture an explanation...
DG
Edits: 11/03/14
is that teflon tape wrapped on the transformer?
No, Ringwear, the top, bottom and sides of the Toroidal transformer are enclosed by respectively three, three and four layers of UltraPerm 80 (hydrogen-annealed MuMetal) separated by a sixteenth-of-an-inch thick strips of cork to maximize its shielding effectiveness. To avoid any shorts, the outside of each of these is covered with two thicknesses of white paper and the lid is fastened down to the sides with white duct tape. The Toroidal transformer inside is held down tightly in place by a previously-demagnetized, white nylon cable-tie in order to avoid the metallic presence of any machine screw. Between the amplifier case and the UltraPerm 80 enclosure underneath the Toroidal transformer is a 100mm diameter x 6mm thick hexagonal Deflex tile product called 'Hexi-Flexi' @ $3.75 from Michael Percy that releases more detail than any other product that I have heard. So what you see in the picture is just the protective white paper wrapping. Anyway hope this information is comprehensible and of some use.
DG
i get it ... is the tie better than brass screws?
Ringwear,
If the substitution of the brass screw and nut for the stainless steel was a 25% improvement in clarity, then the nylon cable-tie substitution over the brass was perhaps another 12.5%. i.e. not as large but still desirable unless you are going to be traveling with your amp constantly or stretching the cable-tie by turning the component upside-down on a regular basis when it might be impractical. Brass is an inexpensive audiophile necessity in my opinion while nylon is a desirable further option for the enthusiast.
DG
I use a wrap of copper tape held secure by silicone tube dampers on rectifiers. I read in an earlier post that this elevates performance equal to metal based rectifiers. The original idea was to secure the copper tape with glue.
The only other place i use dampers is the first gain stage to stop any micro-phonics from being amplified up the chain. Got that suggestion here, as well.
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