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In Reply to: RE: ok, i tried it posted by unclestu on October 09, 2014 at 20:21:26
so i added "wingtips" n-s-e-w on the tweeter but you don't have that config listed. it worked, in any case. speaker screws are not drawn to a magnet but are not brass. would i see an improvement changing to brass anyway?
lot of other interesting stuff up there, btw.
Follow Ups:
Non-magnetic white metal COULD be a type of stainless steel. Monel (an alloy) is used in marine applications for that reason.
Don't forget that ANY conductor which is conducting or in a magnetic field will have induced current.
Too much is never enough
Brass would give a slightly more extended and sweeter top end. Could be blackened brass already though. Take a file and expose the bare metal at the tip to check.
Is this the speaker with the Marigo dots installed?
not brass. stainless steel. yes, same speaker but not marigo dots. Wharfedale 10 using mounting putty.saw on your page about the battery mod for headphones and tried it on a short extension i have. [10000/16v electro] tiny effect at first then all of a sudden large hall effects. nice detail.
Edits: 10/10/14
Oh yeah one other thing add a nice bypass film cap n it will sound even better.
Depends:for analog larger 1 uf or so. for digital smaller .1- .15 uf. for ipod/mp3 players use smaller values
.
Glad to see the BGT works. Actually I've built it in to USB and MDMI cables with all good effects. HDMI is a bitch to work with, though. People who have tried it with an iPod and similar devices really like it but grumble the capacitor pack is bigger than the pod !
Stainless offers about 80 to 90% the advantages of brass. So no real need to change to Brass.
On the other hand, I have a little observation which may not please you.
I believe the triangular positioning of the marigo dots is affecting your woofer. Eigenmodes are what we are working with here. The triangular configuration which you have is actually breakng up the speaker cone (through damping) in a three lobe configuration. Think sort of like a three dimensional three leaf clover.
What you want is either a four leaf clover like what you are achieving with the four wingtips on the tweeter or perhaps a figure eight if you use only two. It all has to do with the placement of your ears. We are more aware of left right sounds rather than top bottom.
Actually, before removing any Marigo dots try rotating the woofer so that one marigo dot is top dead center (one screw clockwise as per your photo). That should help the imaging and then try the n-s orientation of the wing tips. Roght now a N-S orientation would sort of coincide with the maor output of the lobe: not good.
Uncle Stu,Since you replied to Ringwear with comments on the picture of my speaker, let me respond.
I don't have spare Marigo Dots so tested the layouts with just three Dots and 11/3/7 o'clock was still best for the mid-range and a switch to the 12/4/8 that you recommended was noticeably better for the woofer in the context of my ears and environment.
Cutting the cable ties off the bundled wires coming off the Toroidal transformer and separating each bundle from the other two certainly leads to greater separation (your website tweak). This last few days I have substituted cable ties for all amplifier machine screws with nuts, wherever possible nylon or at least brass for almost all the stainless steel machine screws (they are almost all magnetic in my case) and the reduction in distortion has been surprisingly large. I previously thought a low noise floor was primarily attributable to minimizing corruption from ground (component and domestic accessories etc.) but, no, EMI is local and lethal in the many supplied machine screws of an amplifier. The problem comes in replacing small screws for which there is no way to find specifications for Internet ordering and for which there are no nylon substitutes. Cannot hear speaker teardrops yet, perhaps because I design badly or have tested insufficiently.
Incidentally substituting a white for a black cable tie to retain the Toroidal transformer to the amplifier case does indeed result in a substantially more open sound just as you say.
Many thanks for your help.
DG
Edits: 10/13/14
for mixing you two up. Damn, i'm getting older than i care to admit.
I do find it amazing, like you have observed, that so small incremental changes can make audible differences in sound.
The number crunchers must throw fits because I believe we are at the limits of test instrumentation (at least for the stuff a home hobbiest can afford)). I'm a dealer and yet I can not afford the gear with sufficient sensitivity, even though I haunt the local military surplus depots with great hopes....
I had posted about the colored insulation a while back and gotten slammed. Glad no one did that to you. Not that it really bothered me, but no one seemed to even wanted to try, and that effort is fairly minimal, too, which puzzles me....
Based on using computer type ribbon cable, here's a few more observations on colored insulation. Red seems to give a better top end. Blue seems to give better bass.
I have tried researching (admittedly a while ago) into the the nature of the dye lots used, but pretty much hit a blank wall. It is interesting to note, though, that even clear insulation is obtained by mixing in certain
additives.
I am on sheer speculation here, but in looking a painter's colors, I believe we can get a few clues. For one thing, we have Cadmium red and cobalt blue. Cobalt, if used, is a highly magnetic substance.
The newer metglass used for magnetic effects is cobalt foil cryogenically treated ( like mu metal which is nickel).
Incidentally, your picture must have been the midrange driver, I take it. If you notice the voice coil leads come in at the 12 oclock position. The extremely slight drag of the voice coil leads act as a marigo dot. It weighs down the cone ever so slightly and dampens the cone at that position.
Sometimes in modding speakers, I double check wher the voice coil leads enter the cone (not always visible from the front) and orient it to a N/S direction. This way the "dead" spot faces the driver directly above or below. It reduces the overlapping cross over frequencies and seems to clean up the sound a bit more.
Did this to a JBL Ti250 once and the difference in sound was astounding. I had been invited to dinner by a customer and I knew he wanted me to critique his system. Simply rotatedthe drivers on one side and the owner was so impressed, we ticked off his wife who already had dinner waiting while we removed and rotated drivers on the other side.
The again I mentioned this to a SEAS engineer at CES and he simply couln't believe me.
FWIW and of course YMMV
Uncle Stu,
I find that Marigo Audio Green Dots at 11/3/7 on the mid-range and 12/3/6/9 on the woofer diaphragms are the best combination for focus, musicality and listening comfort with my Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands, system and ears. 12/3/6/9 on the mid-range was incredible for focused detail but too exhausting to the brain over any length of time...
In the end the brass machine screws were better as inner screw replacements on the tweeter to hold the face plate to the tweeter unit since nylon screws produced too little tension and treble detail.
Rope caulk at 12/3/6/12 on mid-range and woofer surrounds has led to a distinct increase in focus. Thank you for this tweak.
DG
Monel, which is NOT a stainless alloy, should be better yet. Just be sure to get the right non-magnetic 'version'.
Too much is never enough
You might be thinking of someone else's speakers so here's a picture. This seems to work. What should I _listen_ for in regards to 'wrongness'?subsequently i changed the bottom tweeter dot to conform with the other tweeter dots.
Edits: 10/10/14
OK got wrong picture....
In my page I recommend placing a tiny piece of something like painters blue tape on the cone: easy to remove without damaging speaker, though you may need tweezers to place. Place Two pieces sized about a 1 mm by 2 -3 mm long placed north and south on the woofer cone just where the surround meets the cone.
They'll act like Marigo dots and dampen the cone slightly forcing the cone to break up into left-right eigenmodes: that is a more like a left-right symmetrical pattern which is what we are searching for. Normally I get more center fill and better detail.
since I can't reach it to place anything on it I tried the long strips as shown. at late nite low levels I can sense a piano being realistically played as if I was sitting behind the piano player back a couple rows.
Some mesh covered tweeter carry a small plastic dot in the back center.Does yours? The dot is supposed apply a little back pressure to dampen out the tip of the tweeter.
i don't see a dot like that. i don't use the grills but i picked em up just to have a look. is it possible they were trying the same kind of tricks.
problem is when i saw that i removed the putty, put the grills on, then tried several configs until i couldn't tell what i was hearing. taking a break and going back to what i had that seemed to be working.
Interesting....
Fine adjustment:move strip up for more bass, lower for more treble. for your own taste of course.
Amazing what a little putty can do.
Btw does your woofer have a phase plug?
.
between woofer and tweeter say only a 1/16 inch high as per picture. Should increase midrange. Move up or down to alter balance
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