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It always amazed me how much speakers improve if you simply change the mounting screws from the typical black iron ones to SS or even better to brass
Here's a photo of my Ryan R620's with the mounting screw changed to a #8 by 5/8 mounting screws. Some wrinkling of the felt around the tweeter because i changed the mounting screws there too. Driver blend gets better, and the soundstage enlarges, fine detail increases helping the imaging, and micro dynamics increase.
All in all, a very beneficial tweak considering how cheap it is. I prefer the brass phillips head screws which not all hardware stores carry but are plentiful on eBay, If you change out only one side and listen, you will immediately notice the imaging pulls towards the speaker which have had the screws changed.
The reason it so helpful is that the magnetic fields would rather travel through ferrous material rather than through even air. Thus the magnetic screws tend to trap and retain the magnetic field passing through it. Non magnetic hardware will pass the magnetic fields much faster and , brass being more conductive than steel, even stainless will also pass the electro part of the EMI fields better.
You engineering types may think that the change will be negligible, but since magnetic structures have been gaining in strength rapidly with all these rare earth stuff, it certainly makes for an audible difference. The good thing is that it is fairly cheap to implement.
Note: that some manufacturers use machine screws which use a steel threaded insert. The effect here may be limited because of the ferrous insert. I normally use a #8 by 3/4 or 5/8 inch brass screw
Follow Ups:
on my Genesis 6.1s. It seemed so insignificant a project that it never got to the top of my list until recently. To Genesis' credit considering how many driver types they used in these things, only the tweeters employed ferrous screws, and then, only in the inner ring. These are round ribbon tweeters using exotic materials and they claim they are the world's best tweeters. Yet, the one place they neglected was the most vulnerable of all to the harm they could do. Worse, there are two of these tweeters on each speaker, one faces backwards and is higher from the ground. This makes it a dipole and enhances sound stage depth.I found 16 brass screws at the local True Value store for about $12.00. It took about 15 minutes to CAREFULLY remove the old screws as the little hex wrench is seriously attracted to the powerful magnets. The improvement in the sound stage, timbre in the highs was significant. This was a substantial improvement for these speakers for peanuts. Highly recommended.
Thanks, Unclestu.
Everything is going to the dogs
Edits: 04/08/15
Dryginger2, I don't know if you have seen this but it's food for thought:See link:
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Edits: 04/12/15
ipdtt,
Many, many thanks for this link! It's good to know that there's a permanent solution to the problem of flaking MDF that's impossible to avoid after re-installing the speakers in their cabinets numerous times for tweak-testing. Only last night I noticed that two or three screws were no longer gripping as they had, was pondering what action to take and today find your answer that I had earlier missed/ therefore failed to acknowledge - my apologies.
Would test nylon for this purpose but found that using nylon machine screws to hold the tweeter to its surround did not sound as good as brass perhaps because the issue of exerting high pressure was more important than degradation from magnetism retained by the brass machine screws required to achieve it.
DG
Dryginger2, i am glad i could help as i find your posts and others helpful to me.
One more video from Rick about brass screws.
See link:
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
More DIY tips and tricks from Rick Schultz on YouTube.....it's food for thought.See link:
~D
Wherever you go there you are.
Edits: 05/18/15
Great pic!
I have been going through some of your older posts. I am very interested in the brass screws tweak but when I contacted Totem about the tweak they told me that I would void the 4 years left on my warranty for my Mani-2 Signature speakers. I have tried but I cannot find anyone who has tried this tweak on Mani-2 speakers. I have noted that Reference 3A are now using brass screws on their top models.
Uncle Stu,
Three months ago, on substituting brass for ferrous wood screws retaining the speaker boxes in the cabinets on your advice, it never occurred to me to demagnetize the brass screws prior to their installation. Having generated many improvements from decreasing EMI, yesterday I took half the brass wood screws out at a time and demagnetized them before screwing them back in. The decrease in distortion/ increase in depth and purity was marked.
The only question is how long it takes before speaker magnet exposure so saturates the screws again that the process needs to be repeated - the performance gain from system cable end/ AC wall outlet degaussing seems to last at least six months.
DG
The issue about material affecting magnetic field is not about whether the material is magnetic, but it is about whether the material is electrically conductive.
It is known that nonferrous metals such as aluminum can still affect magnetic fields because they are electrically conductive, and fluctuating magnetic field in proximity will induce eddy currents in nonferrous metal materials, generating an opposing magnetic field that could affect the original field, thereby leading to an effect on sound in audio applications. That why some more enlightened manufacturers have chosen to totally eschew metal (even aluminum) in the construction of chassis for their audio products.
Ferrous metals of course have the same effect insofar as they're electrically conductive.
However, any material made of steel will affect magnetic fields noticeably less than one of brass or copper, which are more electrically conductive. More conductive = less resistance = larger induced eddy currents = larger opposing magnetic field.
Jerome,
"The issue about material affecting magnetic field is not about whether the material is magnetic, but it is about whether the material is electrically conductive."
That explains why substituting nylon/ plastic for each stainless steel machine screw on my amplifier (regardless of whether or not that SS screw exhibited any attraction to a magnet when tested beforehand) produced a similar amount of distortion lifting.
Thank you seven months later.
DG
1. Ferrous materials are much more prone to magnetic saturation than aluminum or brass. Thus they affect the magnetic field much more than aluminum or brass. Try picking up a steel screw, aluminum one, or brass one with a magnetic:The proof can be directly seen.
2. All metals are electrically conductive to a degree, aluminum,magnesium, etc., even liquid mercury. If the electrical field were the primary effect, steel, as you point out, would make little difference between other non ferrous material.
3. EMF=Electro Mgnetic Field. There are two components to this field generated by any AC current. One is the magnetic field (principle of motors, etc) and secondly the electrical field induced. Both can not exist without each other, unfortunately. You can address one but better to address both.
The idea of using brass or stainless screws is to eliminate the magnetic field. However being that brass is more conductive than even aluminum and stronger 9for those who want to quote Young's modulus), it affects the electrical fields also. It has minimal effect on the magnetic fields.
Again remember the principle of the use of a keeper for u shaped magnetics.. You don't use brass, ot won't even stick...
A more highly conductive screw will pass the electrical field faster being more conductive. The induced field will be smaller, not larger, as it move fasters through the material.
Note that many Japanese high end digital gear ( at least from my observation) use copper plated steel screws. The additional cost is NOT for cosmetics.
Hi Stu,
Two years ago, I didn't know this forum but saw videos of Rick Schultz who said same things to you about brass screws.
It was the time I was doing my fullrange diy loudspeakers with the ambitious aim to keep all the benefits of the fullrangers without their downside...
Right now I can say that I've reach my aim even if it was difficult and time consuming in tweaks: but what a pleasure to discover and understand!
One of the good tweaks I kept was the brass screws which gave a lot of air and better highs. I've to say that I use brass screws + brass inserts.
If you have specific tweaks for fullrange tell me please!
For the time I'm very attract by the little dots of bud purvine...trying to understand how to do it!
OK so let's assume that replacing steel screws with, say, brass screws changes the sound of a loudspeaker.
Now it has been claimed that the *reason* for this has to do with EMI/RFI and/or the magnetic properties of brass.
But why??
What evidence does anyone have for making this assumption?
Why doesn't anyone consider alternatives - such as the rather obvious one : the mechanical properties of steel and brass are very different. They are being used to secure something that is vibrating. So the mecahnical properties are kinda important.
From experiments I've done, it's really pretty easy to tell different materials apart when they are used in such critical vibration situations. (And typically in such situations where vibration is obviously important but it's a stretch to see how magnetic properties could be affecting things, steel sounds different to brass.)
People talk about science but this is what I think science is about : Design an experiment to test a hypothesis. Do the experiment. Confirm or Dis-confirm the hypothesis. Wash, rinse and repeat.
Here is what science isn't : Hear a difference. Make a wild guess at what might be causing this. Explain it in sciencey terms. Proclaim it as if it's a fact.
OK so how about an experiment to see whether the magnetic properties of screws makes a difference in loudspeakers.
What is needed are several sets of screws. You need to find at least two non-magnetic sets of screws. For example, nylon and brass. Titanium would also be good.
Now see if you can hear a difference between the non magnetic. If you can then the magnetic hypothesis flies out the window.
Cheers, The mad scientist.
On another hand... you've got the NVA (nene valley audio) principles which seem to say the same Unclestu says...
But maybe effects are cumulative...
Inox screws are non magnetic and work a little better than other ones BUT brass is a little bit better...
I think brass could be better for better vibration and non magnetic effects...
Hi Beautox,
I said the brass screws "sounded better" but I've no explanation about it...
That being said, Bernard Salabert who died a few years ago, made pretty good fullrangers with brass chassis...What he said was that it sounded better because that was a metall which is used to make instruments or bells.
Thank you for your informative posting. Perhaps this why degaussing components (other than hard drives)in addition to the metal ends of cables etc. is also productive.
I believe that electromagnetic interference distortion is the largest single source of sound degradation, larger than the sound image blurring of vibration from analog and Jitter from digital components, and larger than the frequently shared corruption via ground of component/ domestic accessories.
DG
but I got here.
I read the post and was intrigued; short money for better sound, why not? My speakers have threaded inserts for the machine screws and they're metric. So I had a heck of a time finding the brass screws. I finally located them online. In the meantime, I bought some stainless locally and put them in. After careful listening, I thought I noticed improvement but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on it. Well, no harm done.
Today the brass screws arrived. Damn. Why hadn't I heard of this before? I listened to four LPs that have been in heavy rotation and the results were consistent: the music is more musical. The stage is bigger, clarity is improved and the overall presentation exhibits a natural, relaxed sweetness.
Thanks UncleStu!
Be careful boys and girls....I know my Vandersteens looks like it has screws holding the speakers in place, but the screws are there only during manufacturing. Actually, there is a special mastic that holds the speakers...the screws are there only to hold them until the mastic cures. By turning those screws you will crack the mastic and you need to send the speaker back to the manufacturer. Vandersteen is not the only manufacturer who does this.
The screws do hold the drivers in place, and the mastic after time simply hardens. If you remove and replace the screws one at a time you will not disturb the existing mastic.
I normally use the 3M automotive window caulk when performing repairs on the Vandersteens and other speakers: (Vandy 2's, originals, had foam surrounds) scraping off the old hardened mastic, and replacing with the pliable 3M stuff. After a few years it does harden and being designed to watertight windows it is similarly air tight.
That was interesting and helpful. I have a very old pair of Vandersteen 2's that I need to necromance. When you get the woofer off, to you refoam them yourself or do you send them to Vandersteen?
Original 2's used a foam surround woofer and a midrange if memory serves me right. While Richard prefers that you send the drivers back to him, I have refoamed in the field with no audible harm. My guess is that he has seen a lot of botched jobs.
Except for the first generation 2's all the subsequent models use a rubber surround, so normally they seem to last forever. I did get a speaker om fr repair where constant exposure to sunlight had really stiffened the rubber and it had cracked. Sent back to factory and they repaired it.
Cool thing about Richard is that he offers 100% support for every speaker he has ever made. The OEM driver may be long gone but he has the facilities to rebuild everythig he has every used. I had a slightly later model of the 2 where the voice coil was open: Sent it back and he repaired it !
I do not beieve there is any other manufacturer with that kind of support, particularly when he goes back over 25 years. He's cool dude, a bit on conservative side when it comes to customer service ( he doesn't trust many consumers, and can't say I blame him!)
It is a real "female dog" getting the sock off. Is there a way to tell if it is second generation from the outside? Serial number perhaps? I have heard that Richard gives good support. Not like Infinity with the EMIT and EMIM drivers.
Dave
You can go by serial numbers and I believe Richard added the B, C etc at the end of the number. On the 2Ce, the e stands for elongated and the cabinet was 3 inches taller
I did a search and found this:
1977 – Vandersteen Model 2 debuted
1979 – Vandersteen Model 2a
1980 – Vandersteen Model 2b
1980 – Vandersteen Model 2c - last model using perishable foam surrounds
1989 – Vandersteen Model 2ci - 1st model using butyl rubber surrounds
1992 – Vandersteen Model 2ce
If the surround is white it is foam. If not, I won't worry about it!
Dave
Not burdened by the assumptions of much technical knowledge, earlier today I inserted cork a sixteenth-of-an-inch thick around the circular flange between the mid-range/ woofer speaker baskets and the cabinet. That slight insulation of each from the vibration of the other (and perhaps of the tweeter and cross-over back panel from both as well) through the cabinet led to an unexpected improvement in the dimensionality of the sound. Interestingly similar insulation of the tweeter from the cabinet slightly degraded the sound quality.
The thin cork is presumably so well crushed by the screw-tightening pressure that no air can escape...
Richard V cautioned me not to touch those drivers, unless I wanted to remove them. No need to tighten them
To keep the cork from drying and cracking, a NON PETROLIUM lube, like a silicon stopcock grease very, very lightly applied should help.
You probably don't have ANYTHING in your house that'll touch this stuff. It is quite inert, under most conditions.
Too much is never enough
PictureGuy,
Many thanks for the helpful suggestion and link!
DG
Enjoy,
But keep in mind the way I was taught to use this stuff:
'Put none on and take it all off' was the mantra.
IOW, use VERY sparingly. Less, even. NO blobs or globs.
Too much is never enough
Thank you for the technical directions.
Must have removed each speaker box from its cabinet for various testing purposes about 25 times this year, carefully laying out the ferrous screws on the floor in the exact formation of their installation to avoid endless trouble on re-installation. (A process made redundant by their brass replacements which are tightly held but not hole-dependent.)
The difficulty for an habitual tweaker is knowing when to sparingly apply 'Dow Corning® High Vacuum Grease' to the flange between each speaker basket and cabinet and secure the permanent air-pressure seal. Perhaps after soldering six-foot long, high-quality hookup-wire replacements directly from the speaker box connectors to the cross-overs in an external enclosure mounted on a maple or bamboo block floating free of the cabinet vibrations? Surely that will finally be it.
Having substituted brass replacements for a total of 16 outer ferrous screws on the tweeter, mid-range and woofer of each speaker and appreciated the reduction in noise-level, I ordered the four brass replacement from McMaster-Carr for the inner tweeter screws of each speaker as a completist. Switching them ever was interesting as the ferrous screws were so highly magnetized that I have never before had to use full finger strength to pull out unscrewed machine screws.
The sound of a guitar, the Japanese 'Koto', the violin, or indeed any treble sound goes from rough and slightly muffled to pure and crystal-clear like a bell. So, if you have inner ferrous tweeter screws, an investment of $18 or less transforms the top end through brass replacements. (And that concentration of brass gets covered up by felt tweeter surrounds so those bright, shiny screws no longer grab the eye.)
Hi Dryginger2 and Unclestu,
@ Dryginger2...Glad to hear this tweak is working out for you. Did you get all the brass screws from Mcmaster-carr? Is it the #8 3/4 or 5/8? From their catalog...I see I do not see the brass screw with the philips round head. Wondering if you still have the product numbers?
Anyways, I am having the hardest time finding the brass screws with the same kind of "threading" as the ferrous ones that I am using now. What I thought were the correct ones, from a hardward store, turned out to be different upon closer inspection.
@Unclestu and Dryginger2...does the threading have to be exactly the same? For example...on my current #8 3/4 inch ferrous ones...there are only 6 threads (doesn't seem like many). I have not seen Mcmaster's #8 3/4 or 5/8 inch...do you know approx how many threads there are?
Will be using #8 3/4 for tweeters....and #8 5/8 for midrange and woofers. I am now wondering whether it's ok to use all 3/4 since is only just a little longer than 5/8. Bad idea?
Unclestu...sorry for being such a pest...:)
Thanks so much.
Screws do not need identical thread. SS steel are normally sheet metal screws with toghter thread and brass ones are normally wood screws so thread pitch is slightly wider. Original screws were probably wood screws.
As previously stated i got my brass flat head phillips screws (8 x5/8) off ebay for about $7 shipped. you can get longer ones too:3/4 and 1 inch for a couple bucks more. Took.only three days to arrive n i'm 3000 miles from the continent.
J
Hi Unclestu,
Just got word from Mcmasters about the threading...
I think mine are wood screws too...black in color...probably iron?
6 threads for 3/4 inch length
McMasters...round slotted head brass wood screws
approx 12 threads for 3/4 inch length
Big difference? Too big?
Thanks.
Probably be ok
Hi Unclestu,
Got the brass screws in finally. It did make a diffence esp on the highs. Clearer and music sounds more dynamic now. Thanks so much for the tweak...brought my system up a notch.
Visited your site...come across the charcoal tweak. Thinking on trying that out. Any latest info on that...ie...locations what would be most effective for midrange fullness and bass?
Thanks again!
As explained on the webpage, I use two charcoal briquettes although I do cruch them into smaller random sizes in order to play with the Quantity (use a zip lock bad, as the dust can be nasty)Placed between drivers, line of sight to the magnet structure works very well. but you will have to remove the drivers to do so. On your speakers think just the midrange would do. Placed between the drivers it clears up the transition frequencies between the drivers and seems to help clear up what i used to believe was crossover distortion.
Before removing the driver, though, experiment by taping a plastic bag to the side of the cabinet to audition and to determine the right amount. There is no set formula as different drivers have different magnet configurations and strength. I use the painters blue masking tape as it does not leave any residue so it will not mar the finish.
The bigger the driver magnet the more charcoal you will need, of course. Don't overdo it as too much rolls of the frequency response of that particular driver.
If you're ging to leave on the top of your cabinet, find a nice wooden box. Local craft stores often have el cheapo Chinese made project boxes: some kind of very light weight pine, but it sounds better than those nicely crafter hardwoods. You can paint it although I do notice even the finish tends to brighten the sound a bit, So yo may have to readjust the charcoal.
The box on top always seems to wow freinds who come to listen. Easy to remove and replace too.
Have fun. remember that is the whole reason why we're in this.
Edits: 10/15/14
Take a felt pens and simply color the bright brass. Works for me
UncleStu,
Many thanks for the remarkable tweak and this practical suggestion...
DG
What is that bluish putty on woofer?
UncleStu,
It's been pointed out to me that you may have been making a reference to the three green Marigo Dots on the mid-range to counter vibration when you described 'that bluish putty on the woofer' . Sorry, thought you were referring to some haze in the image. My apologies.
DG
Something on the mid-range created by flash reflection, nothing in reality.
Brass seems to be the magic ingredient to many things involving sound reproduction.
I'm a Mapleshade fan and their philosophy appears to be attach anything with brass. Also brass is sometimes used in key parts of a guitar for tone/sustain.
Brass has certain acoustical properties, one reason why bells are usually made of brass. It has a certain amount of "ring", pafticularly in the mid/upper midrange. In contrast, something like aluminum has a resonant frequency that is higher and tends to become a little tizzy at times.
We are using the brass screws here primarily for a combination of their non magnetic as well as conductive properties. There are other metals which are non magnetic: titanium comes to mind, but they are pretty expensive... As a footer they really deaden the sound, too
YMMV, of course.
Hi. Stu;
Thank you for posting this!! My younger son and I will try this on his system.
Take care...old guy
Hi Unclestu,
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hyperion/938.html
Here is a link to a better pic of the speakers up close. Total novice here...it looks like a hex cap screw? If I am unable to get the same size hex cap screws in brass...can I substitude them with philips head screws?
Thanks...:)
Not familiar with your speakers, but looks to be machine screws. I would take one screw out of the tweeter mid and woofer and take it down to a hardware store to check the thread.Don't think you'll find hex head brass screws (I haven't really looked however) but you should be able to find flat head philips brass head screws on ebay. Most likely mettric thread.
GoodluckStu
Edits: 10/04/14
Thanks, unclestu.
I use stainless hex socket screws for drivers only.
I will try brass screws.
@TonyB...I think mine are using hex socket screws too. Were you able to find brass ones? Just in case I am unable to find brass ones...I am wondering if it's ok to substitute hex socket for another type screw head with the same threading.
Anyone knows?
Thanks
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hyperion/938.html
Link to speaker pics.
I did not see brass hex socket cap screws.
Brass screws come mostly in slot, sometimes in Philips.
Use another type as long as it fits into the enclosure
holes.
I recently changed out the tweeter section on my line sources to Fountek ribbons. I had used brass on the B&G 5's I replaced. Kept the brass on the midbass drivers. Switched to steel on the new ribbons. I guess I need to get out the brass screws and give them a try. Thanks
never tried it on ribbons, be curious to hear bout your results, although theoretically it should work.
Stuffing a little cotton or similar in the screw hole for a snugger fit? I may give it a go. I'd need about 55 screws per speaker if I do the passive radiator too. Thoughts on the passive welcomed, it suree helped to dampen the basket which no longer rings now.
ET
If passive is mounted close to the driven drivers, change the screws also.I picked up 100 brass 8 by 5/8 screws on ebay for $14, BTW
Edits: 10/03/14
The cost is no bother, and the passive is three feet away almost. Nothing on the cotton or other filler?
ET
If screw holes are loose, I lightly oil the screw thread and place a drop of elmer's glue in the hole, when tightening up the screw.
After glue dries the connection is quite tight.Or you can go to a slightly oversize screw or if the baffle is quite thick, a longer screw.
Edits: 10/03/14 10/03/14
Thanks as always!
ET
UncleStu,
Many thanks for this tweak which I tested today by comparing all the sound playing first through one Mozart Grand speaker (with #8 1.25" slotted round brass wood screws in place of the 4 tweeter, 6 mid-range, 6 woofer, and 8 back-panel black ferrous screws) with that coming afterwards exclusively from the other Vienna Acoustic speaker fitted with the original screws (using the Audio MIDI Setup for selective muting).
I spent $29 on different sizes of brass screws and found that the direct replacement of ferrous #8 1.25" by brass equivalents facilitated the removal of brass and return to ferrous if needed and led to a tight fit.
So do brass screws deliver an audible improvement? Yes, the distortion floor drops so the music is more clearly defined, more enjoyable and less tiring to listen to. Initially it's not a transformative, 'in-your-face' difference but it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to go back to that light, muzzy background noise again that imperceptibly steals musical detail and fatigues the ear. And, at this inexpensive price, why would any audiophile wish to unless too short on time or hung up on an untested opinion?
Dry Ginger
Hey DG, glad to see you're back! Let's see a before and after shot of distortion floor measurements to back up your claim.
Thank you, Ubiquitous One.
If scientific proof is required before spending $45 on a tweak, you must be answerable to a ferociously demanding WAF. In such circumstances perhaps a felt defraction ring for tweeters from Madisound at the delivered cost of $11 would be less threatening to your wellbeing?
Good luck!
The tweak is useless since I use Quad stats. No need for box speakers at my place since they are woefully lacking. Anyway, could you produce some charts showing before and after distortion floor plots. You made a very bold claim, and I would like to see some proof - for the integrity of this forum.
Ubiquitous Bi,
Should members first check with you before posting or commenting on a tweak in order to first qualify its relevance by your ownership of the equipment in question?
Perhaps it has still not occurred to you that this is a website for audio tweakers to exchange experience, not professional scientists undergoing peer review of white papers. Demanding proof here indicates a lack of faith that the human ear is a suitable means for evaluating a tweak, infers that those posting do so in bad faith or serves as an excuse for substituting trolling for tweaking. The lifeblood of the forum is members helping members with tweaking/ DIY (rather than members harassing members) so please list which tweaks you have contributed so we can all share in full appreciation of your positive assistance to members.
Dry Ginger2
As that renowned audiophile, Henry Ford, observed: "If you believe in trusting your ears and testing tweaks to advance audio knowledge or the reverse by offering second-hand opinions to third parties, you're right."
As that genial Washington audiophile, Tip O'Neill, commented: "All audiophile experience is local."
And as that garrulous Texan, LBJ, added: "When I have a system by its ground, vibration and EMI/RFI, the dynamics, pace, rhythm, timing, and soundstage will follow."
.
Don't feed the troll. It's his loss , not yours.
For the integrity of this forum, you would have to try the tweak yourself, and report the experience.
However, I think we already know everything we need to, after the phrase "box speakers ... are woefully lacking". When someone operates with such unqualified statements, further dialog becomes kind of pointless - and the only appropriate response is "Quad stats are woefully lacking". No more and no less valid than your original assertion.
Stu
Among other improvements, Reference 3A includes changing the original mounting screws to brass.
s
I was just reading about this. I was thinking about giving it a try when I rotate the woofers on my Spendor BC-1's.
Dave
Hi Unclestu. I have the Hyperion 938. Would the screws that you used on your Ryans work? If not...what should I be looking for?
Heres a link to a pic of the 938.
Thanks...:)
http://184.168.208.58/Print-Article.asp?hArticle=606
To those seeking brass screw replacements...Have just been through the exercise of ordering brass replacements for the four inner ferrous screws on each of my Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand tweeters that were not locally available unlike the outer screws holding the tweeters, mid-range and woofers to the speaker cabinets.
I took one out and identified from a board of screw-in sizers at the local hardware store that it was a Metric M-4 (4mm diameter) 0.7mm Pitch and measured the 0.8mm length from the start of the screw to the beginning of the flat-head. Using these measurements, I then searched on The Internet with some frustration until arriving at McMaster-Carr which sells 50 with a Phillips-head for $18.07 delivered. So, if yours are not locally available, why not similarly discover the exact screw specifications and go straight to McMaster-Carr?
Edits: 10/05/14
Do not know what happened to my reply
I am not familiar with the Hyperions, but the photots seem to indicate they are using a machine screw into a threaded insert: most likely metric thread. I would simply take out one screw per driver ( it will not hurt your speakers and you can still play them) and take the saple to a hardware store to identify them ( length as well as thread size) Then you can correctly buy the equivalent in brass.
The brass equivalent won't have the hex head but you can use a phillips head countersunk screw
Good luck
Unclestu...what I meant was...any pointers on how to get the torque as evenly distributed as possible?
Thanks.
To worry. exchange screws one at a time. if you want to be more meticulous, change screws like tightening car wheel. move to the screw opposite from where you started, moving in a basic star shaped pattern.
in changing screws one at a time, simply snug down the new screws.A lot of force is not necessary at all since other screws are supplying enough tension.
Hi Unclestu,
Sorry for the numerous questions. I am unable to find a store that carries the screw (identified as wood screw by store clerk)in brass. Only equivalent I am able to find is stainless steel (non magnetic 316). Worth the trouble?
Thanks so much.
PS I don't think my speakers are using threaded inserts.
Stainless will give you 90% of the benefits of brass.
Hi Dryginger2 and Unclestu,
@ Dryginger2...Glad to hear this tweak is working out for you. Did you get all the brass screws from Mcmaster-carr? Is it the #8 3/4 or 5/8? From their catalog...I see I do not see the brass screw with the philips round head. Wondering if you still have the product numbers?
Anyways, I am having the hardest time finding the brass screws with the same kind of "threading" as the ferrous ones that I am using now. What I thought were the correct ones, from a hardward store, turned out to be different upon closer inspection.
@Unclestu and Dryginger2...does the threading have to be exactly the same? For example...on my current #8 3/4 inch ferrous ones...there are only 6 threads (doesn't seem like many). I have not seen Mcmaster's #8 3/4 or 5/8 inch...do you know approx how many threads there are?
Will be using #8 3/4 for tweeters....and #8 5/8 for midrange and woofers. I am now wondering whether it's ok to use all 3/4 since is only just a little longer than 5/8. Bad idea?
Unclestu...sorry for being such a pest...:)
Thanks so much.
pc123v,
Suspect that you are over-thinking the whole subject. Did warships in early years have the precise range or did they bracket by sending shells too far and too close in order to find the target's range?
Just buy some packs of a few #8 brass woods screws in several lengths from half-an-inch up to the length of the ferrous originals which in my case 1.25". Try one from each length size and discover which fits tight and unscrews afterwards. If you're lucky as I was, there will be one. In my case it was the brass #8 1.25" length equivalent to my ferrous original.
You may have a general preference for Torx, Phillips or slotted but it hardly matters in my experience which type of head is supplied in the context of ensuring that you get brass because they all work.
Don't be intimidated, just act with cautious confidence and replace a screw at a time and see what works. That's all anybody does. Mistakes and failure provide the information for success. Good luck!
DG
Thanks Unclestu. By the way...I don't own a torque screwdriver. Gonna have to use a normal screwdriver. Would that be ok? Any pointers on how to get the right torque?
Thanks again...:)
It galls me to realize that less than $6 worth of screws is too much for many to even try. Funny to note that Wilson Audio uses stainless hardware ( and they should considering their prices).
Actually you can try a no cost alternative. Simply remove one mounting screw from your drivers, say the inboard upper one. Your drivers won't fall out and your imaging will move upward in the direction of the missing mounting screw. No cost just five minutes of your time. It'll probably take you longer to dig out your screwdriver.
BC-1's have the woofer bolted on from the inside, so I might as well do them all. It is more time than money.
Dave
BC-1 have baffle screwed to cabinet using those threaded insert, ought to change those screws too, if possible. more running around though
have fun
in my experience the less accurate speaker/side grabs my attention.
Unless I misunderstood what you meant ...
Stu, you need to the set also Micro Adjustable Torque Screwdriver as for example CDI 151SM one.
You haven't worked much with a variety of speakers, have you?
1. Who says I do not have torque wrenches and screwdrivers?
2. Older cheaper speakers, say early Boston Acoustics , used a a lot of particle board for construction. Ever examined particle board? Lots of big shards of wood in a compressed substrate. : depending what the screw hits torque will change considerably.
3. Consider the fact that most wood products are hydroscopic: recessed mounting holes can vary quite a bit, particularly if particle board is used. Even ambient humidity can cause warping of a baffle. If the mounting surfaces warp, all bets are off for even torque.
4. Also name me at least ONE manufacturer which will specify torque specifications for mounting their drivers.
I suppose that it may be the field Stu but I'm inclined to put my money on mechanics, at least for woofers and mid-ranges. Their screws are far from the gap and not well aligned with the field so there shouldn't be much magnetic coupling in my estimation. Mechanically however there is a substantial difference between steel and brass and the rim of the speaker carries all sorts of mechanical forces from mass reaction of the cone/VC mass.
But tweeters on the other hand...
Regards, Rick
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