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anyone maybe know the fuse size/value of the otigional shunyata hydra and if any of those silly super expensive fuses cause there to be an appreciable sonic difference
?
thanks bundles.
Follow Ups:
I remain skeptical about high end fuses but in any case it makes no sense to me to put in a "super fuse" and leave the crudy fuseholder intact.
I agree. A $50 fuse in a crappy $2 fuse holder makes no sense. Even a garden variety hardware store fuse probably has better metallurgy in terms of conductors and their assembly than does a typical fuse holder.
The are plenty of audiophile corollaries which indicate a high performance conductor still makes a difference even if mated with a mundane I/O jack, so it's still an important link in the signal chain.
One example: A vintage power amplifier with an antiquated barrier strip terminal with screws or even spring loaded terminals for speaker-level output. Just because an ancient barrier strip or spring loaded terminal functions as a speaker wire terminal does not mean a modern audiophile speaker cable won't make a difference unless the barrier strip or spring loaded terminal is upgraded with modern audiophile quality binding posts.
That said, will an audiophile fuse make as much sonic impact as an audiophile speaker cable? That's very unlikely since they are quite different animals, but subtle improvements and even subtle differences for system tuning efforts tend to be highly valued things to some folks.
Your point about speaker wires is taken, but I would posit that one is not getting the best from a top notch speaker wire if the terminals are not also top notch.
But in the case of a fuse, we have a very short length conductor that is terminated at BOTH ends by only contact pressure with metallic junctions that are usually of much lesser quality (conductivity-wise) than is even the speaker terminals to which you refer. I guess I would say that if I were going to shell out for a $50 fuse, I would also upgrade the fuse-holder. In fact, I have done so, using the Acme products. Their $16 cryo silver fuses in their reasonably priced silver-plated fuseholders are good enough for me. Oh, and need we remind ourselves that signal is NOT traveling in through a fuse and fuse holder? There, the analogy to a speaker wire really breaks down.
"Your point about speaker wires is taken, but I would posit that one is not getting the best from a top notch speaker wire if the terminals are not also top notch."
Of course, a high performance cable requires a high performance connector interface in order to perform at its best. That really goes without saying. Even a neophyte audiophile can understand such a thing.
"But in the case of a fuse, we have a very short length conductor that is terminated at BOTH ends by only contact pressure with metallic junctions that are usually of much lesser quality (conductivity-wise) than is even the speaker terminals to which you refer."
Length does not always matter when it comes to wire/cabling. A very short length bi-wire jumper, upgrading point-to-point internal wiring, as well as replacing integrated amplifiers U shaped stock jumpers with proper rca jumpers are a few examples. As for the contact pressure and conductivity of typical fuse holders, it's all the more reason to implement a superior performance fuse when the conductive interface is sub par.
"I guess I would say that if I were going to shell out for a $50 fuse, I would also upgrade the fuse-holder. In fact, I have done so, using the Acme products. Their $16 cryo silver fuses in their reasonably priced silver-plated fuseholders are good enough for me."
Upgrading a fuse holder is also a good thing. No argument there. Since you agree with the notion of both a better fuse and a better fuse holder, the debate seems to be that you think a $16 cryo'd silver fuse is more sensible than a $50 fuse. You should simply try one and compare it with your particular fuse before ridiculing such a thing. "Good enough for me" as you say, does not mean its good enough for others.
"Oh, and need we remind ourselves that signal is NOT traveling in through a fuse and fuse holder? There, the analogy to a speaker wire really breaks down."
While my analogy included a clear disclaimer that a fuse and speaker cable are quite different animals, the matter of conductivity for both signal and AC delivery are just as important. You are clutching at straws in this regard.
Without the tedium of quoting you in order to rebut, I would say the following:
(1) I never meant to imply that a fuse cannot be sonically significant because it is short in length; I mentioned its length with reference to the importance of the fuse-holder, only. (However, I do have my doubts about the audibility of fuses per se, but those are "doubts" not convictions.)
(2) By saying that the $16 Acme fuses and their fuse holder are good enough for me, I in no way was trying to ridicule the notion of a $50 fuse. Where did I say that? I only said that $16 is in my own personal comfort zone. Compare fuses? Nahhh.
(3) I am clutching at straws?
Okay. I take back the clutching at straws comment...
Cheers, Duster
The only substitute that I found for the Littelfuse was the Cooper Bussman equivalent. Those are two of the big players in the specialized fuse market.
Since it is a 20 amp fuse it may be the strongest link in your system. Is this on a 20 amp 120 volt circuit? Does the power supply have a NEMA 5-15 plug or a 5-20 plug? It seems to me that since this is a time delay fuse the circuit breaker may be just as important. After breakers get old the thermo-magnetic properties can deteriorate and cause fatigue. I don't know if this is audible.
Is the line from the breaker box 10 gauge or 12? (assuming 120 volt) I found that there was a definite improvement using dedicated ten gauge lines. (My theory is that there is less voltage drop as current increases.)
Since you have a nice power supply you could try experimenting with different power cords. I think that a standard 15 amp locking female connector with a 15/20 amp straight plug adapter may work to convert the locking function to straight. This would make trying out other power cables easier.
http://www.conntek.com/products.asp?id=933
You might want to look at this...Audio Horizons Fuses
Another review...WOW!!
I tried some of the expensive ones and heard no difference whatsoever. Given the variations in systems/rooms/ears this doesnt surprise me. The only tweaks that have worked for me are maple blocks under the turntable and cd player and lots of cork wherever it could be used(the 1/2" thick cork)
Changing speaker cables until I got to the very affordable line of Signal Cables made a big (good) difference.
Different fuses will sound (radically) different. If you use circuit works silver grease on a regular clear glass fuse it will sound good, IMHO. Tweaker
"Different fuses will sound (radically) different."
How do any of them sound compared to no fuse?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Doesn't work at all with no fuse.
I guess that's not what you meant :-)
Funny.
I like having a benchmark as a starting point.
If fuses sound different, if fuses cause some kind of "problem", I want the one that sounds the most like "no fuse".
Fuses are present to protect against fire and/or electrocution should something go wrong. They have no other electrical purpose in the design.
Running a piece of audio equipment with the fuse jumped for the purpose of a test, under controlled conditions, will tell us what we're "shooting" for sonically.
Now that we know that, we can make an informed decision as to which fuse is doing the least harm.
Now if people are just picking the type of "fuse harm" that sounds good to them without regard for "least harm" then it's all totally subjective and everyone should just use whatever fuse makes them happy.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"Running a piece of audio equipment with the fuse jumped for the purpose of a test, under controlled conditions, will tell us what we're "shooting" for sonically."
I nominate you for some sort of award: First rational "fuse-post" ever? Or something of that nature.
Of course rationality in this case amounts to taking about the same approach that I would so that might just tarnish the honor slightly...
Not to say that no fuse is the ultimate as that may well sound worse depending upon the environment and mechanisms in play. BUT it does provide a singularly valuable reference point without which you're just adrift if your goal is to understand and optimize the fusation.
And if "fusation" isn't a word, it should be and if one is not a believer that would be confusation?
Regards, Rick
"... and if one is not a believer that would be confusation?"
ROTFLMAO
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
. . . if one is not a believer that would be confusation?
No, you just call sceptics refuseniks.
Rats, I didn't get it the first time I read it!
That triples the score...
R.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I recognize the validity of your argument. But I can't help thinking that in a "similar" case -- active linestage v. passive -- I always come down on the side of the active (tubed of course) because ... it sounds way better to me. In the case of fuses, I've never tried comparing fuse A against fuse B, let alone against your "no fuse" reference. I've used a variety of expensive fuses, currently either eight or nine in my system, and have to confess I like 'em all. First couple of times I compared them back and forth against the stock fuses and the improvement was so dramatic that now when I get a piece of gear that still has the stock fuse in it I tend to replace it without even bother to do a before-and-after comparison.
the fuse is not usual and is not glass.
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