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In Reply to: RE: What's up management? Once again an interesting/educational thread is terminated due to... posted by musetap on April 04, 2014 at 09:23:15
After having been warned repeatedly, he has stepped over the line for the last time, and I have banned him from Tweakers' for good.
The deciding factor was his replies in this thread, no remorse, no apology, just more of the same old behavior.
Rod deleted the original post, which automatically deletes all of the posts under it.
Jon Risch
Follow Ups:
Well surely many will be happy to hear this. I didn't see much of the latest thread in question. Personally I think at least some of his posts were interesting. Some like the candy thread were weird at a minimum. I surely won't miss the sparring between he and Stu.
ET
nt
try it! you know you want to!
-And become a Sponsor-he'd be able to spout unabated still
Des
I had little to do with his latest transgressions, so I do not see why you insist on drawing me into this fray.
In fact, the only post I made was that an tourmaline ionic curling iron works just as good as a hair dryer and is quieter to boot.
The sparring which you refer to was very much GK trying to always prove me wrong. You will have noticed that I ignored him more often than not, after being reprimanded myself (off line). Still, I feel that false explanations should be contested and alternatives provided.
If you feel that is improper, well, that is your opinion. I personally feel that an explanation for something heard leads to further advancement in the audio world, and the pursuit of music should be beyond personal egos. If you notice, I did not contest GK's claim that things like his magic clock did work. It did, but not in the manner that he recommended within my system.
That I could duplicate his work very cheaply, I really did not post till much later. Despite his claims of a complicated process, a simple act of magnets stuck on to any digital alarm clock face works as well, with some fiddling with the time setting (out of respect to manufacturers I often do not reveal the totality of my findings, particularly if I am backward engineering a product). GK never realized what I was doing, unfortunately.
As a dealer, I have not sought to promote my ideas and products and I give credit for inspiration and previous work done by others. I have been always been careful to do so. I make no grandiose claims in priority and am careful to provide what I consider to be appropriate considerations and explanations for the effects I hear and promote. Whether or not the reader wishes to accept them is their prerogative (as is evident from the replies).
I don't even grumble when others take my ideas and market them, either.
I never felt it was improper, I just didn't care for it. While surely one must have more often started these interactions they did take two people to go on.
I'm not mad or anything I just pointed I won't miss those threads between you two as they got a little much. Again not judging who was at fault etc.
One thing is for sure they will be no more.
ET
that GK would have felt the need to belittle, mock or otherwise show signs of disdain in his snarky, pompous way.
YOUR response to the "tourmaline ionic" thread that was deleted (as well as those of the others that HONESTLY
posted to it) were beneficial and would help advance tweaking methods and promote experimentation in such things
by other users.
Unfortunately, GK's involvement in such threads would often lead to their being poooofed and the collateral damage to
HONEST posters and THEIR findings would be lost.
Collateral damage may be acceptable to military minds and thought, but WHY have to suffer it at a hobbyist site?
BTW, seldom have I NOT learned something from one of YOUR posts (and the fact that many of your posts
provided valid info and insight and ended up deleted anyway is exceptionally annoying).
So, thank you.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
I see much of your point but must also say that the moderator could leave the thread and just eliminate the "crap". I never understood why that didn't happen more. I think a more active moderator could perhaps "nip in the bud" threads before they get out of hand. Of course that's easy for me to say. I'd never want the job and will take this moment to thank all the people that volunteer their time for free.
"""I've looked at life from both sides now
From WIN and LOSE and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all"""
ET
sincerely
Stu
Many times I've appreciated your insight given openly.
The thread in question: I started reading it and thought 'For Gooooooooooods sake - I thought this is an AUDIO asylum.'
nt
What the $@&? are you guys all agreeing to ? This is a "Tweakers" Asylum think about that
for a minute or two before continuing with all this "mutual admiration" banter.
Geoff was banned for his non - apologetic stance ? Seems kind of drastic to me ! Why on earth would anyone find it necessary to continually confront someone on an Asylum set aside for talking about Tweaks ? Did it ever occur to you that just maybe other people have the same facility to use subjective thinking also ?
Why picks battles over subjective information ? Talking about things that are counterproductive I would think this to be near the top of the list !
This is the post that was being addressed:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/19/194058.html
This is the response I agreed with:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/19/194061.html
My agreement is that I appreciate unclestu's contributions and attitude in the forum, and I believe he should not be judged in the same manner as the offender in question just because he participated in tedious debates with him.
just my 2 cents
Hi. Duster;
Agree with you 100% about Unclestu's contributions and attitude in the forum!!
I also appreciate YOUR contributions and attitude in the forum!!
Take care....old guy
Sir, it is entirely your perogative to ban however you wish but you now seem to have opened the gates for a 'witchhunt' - i.e for certain people to rail against someone who is not now able to respond but yet you do not seem to be monitoring those responses to your action. As in :-
Volunteer commenting :-
> > > "In my humble opinion he is a complete fraud but sly enough to prey upon the gullibility of his marks. His money back guarantee is brilliant. It enhances the "credibility" of his claims." < < <
And
Lt Einhorn commenting :-
> > > "Exactly, he is without question a fraud." < < <
"Volunteer" is suggesting (implying strongly ??) that Geoff Kait's "money back guarantee" is a marketing ploy, used especially to enhance credibility of his claims.
Why, exactly, is offering a 'money back guarantee' a marketing ploy ?
We, ourselves, have been in the audio industry for 60 years now and as manufacturers starting over 50 years ago with loudspeakers and headphones. From that time we have ALWAYS offered a "home evaluation" period of 21 days with a full money back guarantee if the goods are returned within the 21 days. This is "Best Business Practice" !!!
So, why then have you allowed such as "volunteer's" comment (suggestion/implication) that because of offering a "money back guarantee", this must mean that Geoff is a "complete fraud" - (to use "volunteer's" own words) ??
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
I took GK up on his money back guarantee for the Teleportation Tweak. To his credit, GK promptly refunded my money. However, the very next day that product no longer came with a money back guarantee. Cause and effect? You decide.
So, it seems that he guarantees his products only as long as you do not make use of the guarantee. Not cool, IMHO...
-CD-
You do realize that Geoff's site is for the purpose of poking fun at the "gonzo" subjective side of this hobby don't you? He's as surprised as anyone who actually purchases something from him. "If someone is stupid enough to believe my stuff, then they deserve to be out of pocket" says he. He's having a little fun .... at your expense.It reminds me of Monty Python skits: The premise is so ridiculous, yet the conclusion is drawn out in a believable, logical way. If you believe Geoff's premise -and you shouldn't - then he's gottcha!
Edits: 04/12/14 04/12/14
This is a very good theory. Takes a "special" type of person to do this and sleep well.
Where did you get that quote that you attribute to Geoff Kait at Machina Dynamica?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
I didn't take that as UB saying the GK ever said that.
I took it as, in UB's opinion, if GK was being honest that would be the kind of thing GK would say.
UB is saying that he thinks it's all a joke to GK and I agree. It really seems that way to me. I mean, WRT many of GK's claims, he can't be serious, can he?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I'm not worried about a possible witch hunt. I lean toward letting people on all sides say what they want so I wouldn't have banned him. He made far more enemies and AA posters that would/will never buy his stuff than those that even might with his "posting style" if you will.
As to the money back thing this has always made me laugh regarding its double standard. OK if his stuff doesn't do what he says it will do or does nothing it all it isn't enough for many here that a money back policy is offered. It seems others that would never buy his things also think that those that do are unable to evaluate them. If their argument is to hold water those that buy and don't return are flawed and need a "big brother" to look out for them. This is crap that neither side could prove in court.
I see a parallel in those that call the money back thing a marketing ploy and "generally" (here or anywhere else in the net and world not just AA &tweaks) as limiting free speech and an attempt to censor.
In the end I really don't give a shit..... In the end? Ha! No but really I will lose no sleep. Ah I did it again "but" , "in the end"
Moe Larry Cheese!
ET
As I said in an earlier posting, banning someone from participating can lead to a 'witch hunt' with anyone who chooses to (and is allowed to) post what could be misinformation without the person banned having recourse to respond or challenge or counter any misinformation.
As evidenced by the posting by Ubiquitous Biscuit who is actually claiming (as in his words "he says" in referring to GK) - a statement to be true. Either it is or it isn't !!!!!!!!!!!
This is most unfair.
This isn't what I understand as "everyone's right to free speech" - it is what I would call " anything goes", particularly when hiding behind a pseudonym. Does a fictitious name allow a fictitious comment ? Is that how it goes ?
So, in reply to your sentence, Awe-d-o-file,
> > > "I'm not worried about a possible witch hunt. I lean toward letting people on all sides say what they want so I wouldn't have banned him." < < <
Unfortunately, "letting people have their say" can, whilst allowing them to voice their opinions, can also allow misinformation to abound !! Without Geoff Kait being allowed to confirm, whether he actually said what Ubiquitous Biscuit says he said, then that statement (presented as fact by Ubiquitous Biscuit) stays, as it were, on file.
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
I really don't think anyone really cares. You can defhe got booted.d Geoff untill the day governments are no longer corrupt. It will make zero difference. Geoff habitually abused the audioasylum and he got kicked out of one sub forum. It's not like he is unable to post in other sub forums. We are talking about a guy who doesn't have the skill set To post photos on his own site in the proper orientation. But yet hes supose to be this super smart guy who makes special products only rocket scientists and physicist Are able to understand. However, when read and studied by actual scientist turns out it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. And when he's called out on it he just makes a post that will get the whole thread deleted so he doesn't get bad press.
Im willing to bet 90% of the people here are happy he got the boot
Couldn't agree more with your sentiments.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
For the record, I never claimed Geoff said that, otherwise I would have said 'said he', not 'says he'. It would have been better had I drawn a cartoon with this in a thought bubble, but alas my talents are limited.
or not use them at all.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
I am terribly, terribly sorry for my wanton use of quotation marks. Please forgive me. I really wanted to use italics, but this forum doesn't seem to have them. Again, please forgive me.
Edits: 04/13/14
Simply type this HTML tag without the spaces < i > before the text you wish to be shown in italics, and type this HTML tag without the spaces < /i > at the end of the text:
The result should look like this.
> > > "For the record, I never claimed Geoff said that, otherwise I would have said 'said he', not 'says he'." < < <
Oh Please, Ubiquitous Biscuit, you put the sentence in Quotes !! As in "........". Presumably deliberately.
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
As I said, I should have used a cartoon with a thought bubble. I didn't realize that putting it in quotes, would give the impression that I was quoting him. I was merely inferring what he was thinking or saying when another money order came in for a frog in a water dish.The Machina Dynamica site"warns" you about the material with cheesy cartoon drawings, over-the-top hyperbole from "customers" and so on. He's making it clear that he is pushing the boundaries of people's gullibility. It's satire of the first order. That someone would not recognize this is incredible in itself.
Edits: 04/13/14
> > > "As I said, I should have used a cartoon with a thought bubble. I didn't realize that putting it in quotes, would give the impression that I was quoting him. I was merely inferring what he was thinking or saying......" < < <
Even musetap took it as you 'quoting' something Geoff had SAID, when he asked you:-
> > > "Where did you get that quote that you attribute to Geoff Kait at Machina Dynamica?" < < <
The Internet goes worldwide, sir, this isn't merely playground banter !!
Again in all fairness. Geoff is no angel in doing the equivalent of making 'comments in bubbles'. But I haven't yet seen evidence of him ever doing such things about people who have been banned from responding to such !!
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
For the third (and I hope) the last time, my intent was NOT to attribute a quote to GK that he never uttered. I'm sorry it was misconstrued by some.I've got my eye on that outlet cover that's advertised on the Machina Dynamica site. I'm sure I can find an identical one at Home Depot for about $2.00, but what if does have special properties - I'll be second guessing myself forever! Heck, I should just buy it so I won't have to agonize over it. But wait, better results are obtained if you buy more, the site claims. Let's see .... even though I hard-wire all my connections in a surge protector/power conditioner pony panel, I will still need 8 outlets because the site mentions that even better results can be had for unused audio outlets. That will be $30X8=$240. Where's my credit card .....
Edits: 04/13/14
"I'm sure I can find an identical one at Home Depot for about $2.00, but what if does have special properties -"
I did that very thing years ago when this subject first came up. But I think they were more than two bucks. Anyway, special treatments aside they really did change the sound: They made it worse.
This was in my small study system that ran off of a wall outlet between the speakers but below them. After I yarded it off the wall the sound was better but still "off" a little. I had left the cover lying on the sub-woofer (also between the speakers) and it occurred to me to get it more out of the near-field so I put it in a padded shipping bag on the workbench and things cleared up nicely.
Fun experiment... Now obviously that isn't the end of the story, or doesn't need to be anyway, but from my experience I reckoned that the effect I was hearing was likely due to acoustic specular reflection. Perhaps with "treatment" that characteristic could be transformed from a liability into an asset?
So much depends on the details of you, your system and environment... I didn't try attaching the plates to other outlets (or even other walls) nor did I gather data. It might be a matter of tuning, maybe ya need to damp the audible spectra and keep the ultrasonic ala the Synergistic Research wall resonators...
I encourage you to play with them and if they don't do the job in your stereo your can always use them as intended: outlet covers for your bathroom to give it that industrial urinal vibe...
Regards, Rick
like a chicken running around with their head lopped off, "Why was geoff banned for participating?!?"
Bullshit.
geoff was banned for his continual circumventing of forum rules by 'conveniently' posting about topics that directly relate to or are new products of MD that are available on his website sometimes within hours as in the case of his last post.
Do it once, get warned and go about your business , not great but ok. geoff though did it time and time again and instead of curtailing it, increased that tact. Seem OK to you MAY?!? I've never felt the need to break forum rules to further my business.
You have instead of looking at the situation for what it is have twisted it and made this about you. Why would you do that, do you want to be lumped in with geoff? Surely you've had enough experience with skeptic audiophiles in all your years in the bus. not to be worried and one forum on one website.
I've never heard geoff espouse UB comment in all my time here but people wonder if he position on he's products was superficial mainly because of the snarky attitude he portrayed. And frankly May typically if what you, your husband, or geoff did was so ground breaking then you would expect at least some component of it to be patent-able
> > > "geoff was banned for his continual circumventing of forum rules by 'conveniently' posting about topics that directly relate to or are new products of MD that are available on his website sometimes within hours as in the case of his last post." < < <
I had seen that there were complaints from some regarding :-
> > > "GK yet again starting a thread that can easily be linked to whatever "new" product/tweak he has decided to sell" < < <
But, as I read the Moderators comment, it appeared to me that the reason that Geoff was banned was because of his REPLIES. As in the Moderators reply :-
> > > "The deciding factor was his replies in this thread, no remorse, no apology, just more of the same old behavior." < < <
And yet, again as I see it, other people's replies, probably containing downright misinformation, are allowed unbanned !!
> > > "Do it once, get warned and go about your business , not great but ok. geoff though did it time and time again and instead of curtailing it, increased that tact. Seem OK to you MAY?!? I've never felt the need to break forum rules to further my business." < < <
No, it does not seem OK to me to break forum rules. I have also never felt the need to do so. But I do like to see consistency in the application of those rules. I would much prefer to see the rules associated with the Isolation Ward to be applied universally.
> > > "You have instead of looking at the situation for what it is have twisted it and made this about you. Why would you do that, do you want to be lumped in with geoff?" < < <
I haven't made it about ME, I have made it about fairness and consistency and against misinformation !!
> > > "And frankly May typically if what you, your husband, or geoff did was so ground breaking then you would expect at least some component of it to be patent-able" < < <
Then you are not as knowledgeable regarding patents as you would like to appear.
One has to satisfy 3 important criteria regarding patents to have one granted,
1) It (the idea or product) has to be new, has to be novel.
(OK. We could qualify on that first point).
2) It has to take the existing State of the Art further forward. In this case, the existing State of the Art of Audio.
(OK. We could qualify on that second point).
3) Whatever is the invention (product/technique) it has to be fully described so that a person qualified in that particular art can either make it from the description/illustration or identify it (i.e. In the case of a copy if someone is infringing the patent).
So, if the process (processes) is/are secret or invisible, then there is NO WAY it/they are going to be made public by the inventor of them !!! Because, if a patent was granted, then it obviously would have FULL publication for anyone, anywhere in the world to read !!!!!!!
If you have been following the subject of the Black Discus devices you will see that the producer/inventor of these has also come up against that problem of having to provide full disclosure when THEY considered a patent application.
ANYONE wanting to keep a process secret or invisible would NOT want the process described and therefore available to everyone !!!! Common sense !!! Business acumen !!!
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
But, as I read the Moderators comment, it appeared to me that the reason that Geoff was banned was because of his REPLIES. As in the Moderators reply :-
> > > "The deciding factor was his replies in this thread, no remorse, no apology, just more of the same old behavior." < < <
May,
Perhaps another way to put it would have been this:
He was going to be banned, and any doubt was removed with his display of responses to posts about the M.D. products.
In any case, it was not decided lightly, nor capriciously. In fact, I probably let him carry on way too long in giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Jon Risch
> > > "May,
Perhaps another way to put it would have been this:
He was going to be banned, and any doubt was removed with his display of responses to posts about the M.D. products.
In any case, it was not decided lightly, nor capriciously. In fact, I probably let him carry on way too long in giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Jon Risch" < < <
Thank you for your reply, Jon.
I fully understand that it has been a complex situation involving possible protracted breach/misuse of forum rules.
My concern was, and still is, that some people would take advantage, when presented with an opportunity, to go about 'rubbishing' someone who would not then be allowed to respond. And, it did not take long for that to happen !! Some 9 hours after you had announced that Geoff had been banned !!
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
Yeah his replies to the thread showed he thought he was doing nothing wrong and everyone was a jerk for calling him on it, the proverbial last straw after being given enough rope to make a suspension bridge.The flip side of your 'invisible secret' technology is that it portraits a distinct air of deception. Your right though May all the millions of people/companies who hold patents did so, so anyone can use their ideas freely. Better call Ric Schultz and let him know he made a oops with his recent filing.
No misinformation to champion against, and no I haven't followed Bob's issues with getting a patent nor was I able to find any postings on it here or elsewhere.
May, I guess now that we're on the topic perhaps you could explain how we as humans aren't confused by ourselves or any other animal as the inner wall of resting sarcolemma has a electrical potential of -95 mV
Unfortunately for human beings, electrical energy at
negative potential mimics the earth surface polarity. Negative electrical
connections within electronic and electrical apparatus allow the human
senses to 'read' varying electrical energy patterns within our modern
environment and these energy patterns cause great confusion to the
human senses.
Edits: 04/13/14 04/13/14
"We used to have a high profile businessman who when interviewed would pepper the interview with "At the end of the day."
and use YOUR particular pair of blinders to focus in on comments that have NOTHING to do with why GK
was banned while attempting to tweak the thread in a different route of YOUR choosing.
BTW - why do YOU feel the need to put in YOUR two cents worth in promoting YOUR business, manufacturer?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
> > > "BTW - why do YOU feel the need to put in YOUR two cents worth in promoting YOUR business, manufacturer?" < < <
Musetap. In my postings, I follow the rules of AA. My postings are based on my experiences and not to promote our business.
And, no, I did not miss the point as to why Geoff was banned.
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer.
Surely you don't have anything to worry about....
Just in case you forget:
In Reply to: RE: Typical of YOU to completely miss the point of WHY he was banned... posted by May Belt
Posted by geoffkait (M) on April 4, 2014 at 21:27:17:
"You really don't have much to say here, other than humping my leg you hardly exist."
See link:
"We, ourselves, have been in the audio industry for 60 years now and as manufacturers starting over 50 years ago with loudspeakers and headphones. From that time we have ALWAYS offered a "home evaluation" period of 21 days with a full money back guarantee if the goods are returned within the 21 days. This is "Best Business Practice" !!!"
No?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
> > > "In my postings, I follow the rules of AA. My postings are based on my experiences and not to promote our business." < < <
> > > "Yet you do it anyway... No?" < < <
Musetap. The answer is NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me spell it out. In the late 1950s we had a Hi Fi shop. We no longer have a Hi Fi shop but having a Hi Fi Shop previously is RELEVANT to my experiences in audio.
In the 1960s we began to manufacturer loudspeakers and headphones. We NO LONGER manufacture loudspeakers and headphones but being previously involved in doing so is RELEVANT to my experiences in audio.
Therefore my experiences in audio CAN BE and therefore are discussed on the Audio Asylum sites. I do not do so to promote our current products, I contribute with MY considerable experiences and I am as permitted to do so as you are.
Regards,
May Belt,
Manufacturer
N/T
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
May Belt, you are another con-artist preying on the gullible auduophile. Far better behaved than Geoff but still just a con.
Edits: 04/06/14
Nice to see some common sense returning to this forum...
try it! you know you want to!
Ok here never cared for the comidic & negative attitude...
.
I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked!!
Back to the Iso ward.
Yeah, he's full of information, respect, maturity and his other delights there...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
I suggest fellow inmates make note of that classic tidbit.
Perhaps use the spicy link as a counter-attack in a future AA flame war ;-D
Yep, that one:
Maybe, but I'd always be too busy humping his leg to eat him!!!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
But then a world w/o the snake oil salesmen would not be as colorful?
/
It will be a much better place without him.
.
Now when actual tweakers, hobbyists and ardent pursuers of better sound expend time, energy and honest thought
into posting here, they won't have to worry about him either tagging along and disrupting a thread OR have to
worry about HONESTLY replying to one of his threads only to find it has been vamosed due to his poor and
arrogant behavior.
This is a good tweak to this board!!!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
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