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In Reply to: re:damping posted by unclestu on February 13, 2012 at 11:15:39
Positive Feedback volume 6, number 2 copyright 1996. In an interview by Doug Blackburn , Michael green is quoted as follows:
1. Electronics should be allowed to vibrate, and they must vibrate to sound good.
2. Damping vibrations is incorrect technology to be applying to audio components because damping does not permit optimum travel of electronic signals for audio purposes.
3. High mass is counter to development of the highest quality sound from a component.
4. Damping materials are incorrect technology to be applying to listening rooms, racks and component feet.
5. Rubber, plastic, and nylon should not be used in audio components.
Remember these are Michael Green's ( of Room Tunes fame) comments, not mine. I do agree with the first three points, however. The second point is echoed by the philosophy over at Harbeth, who uses relatively thin wooden cabinets, claiming that moving the resonant points lower causes more issues than if you were to raise it above the critical midrange frequencies.
In my experience the use of spruce for shelving surpasses a combo of Stillpoints, Black Diamond Shelves and carbon fiber cones. And , of course, the wood resonates.
Of course YMMV, but it is food for thought.
Stu
Follow Ups:
Compliant footers such as those from Herbie's Audio Lab, and non-compliant cones and coupling discs such as those from Audio Points, involve vibration damping characteristics such as the transformation of vibration into low-level heat. Based on Michael Green's opinions, such devices are ill-founded for audiophile applications, and would further exclude what I mentioned to be beneficial vibration damping characteristics of a laminated bamboo platform when placed under a component such as a CD transport. I must disagree and will respectfully point out this Galen Carol Audio article as possibly nutritious food for thought:
Bamboo is obviously resonant. In my experience, all compliant footers: rubber or plastic tend to roll of the top end. If your system is bright, this may be beneficial. If neutral, tone wise, then probably not.
One of the primary issues I see with many users is that they do very little experimentation in terms of placement. The corners of a component are the most rigid and solid portions of the cabinetry. Try standing on a cardboard box: the corners will be able to support your weight, but not the edge midway between the corners. Placing the feet at the corners for vibration control is thus addressing the most rigid area of the cabinetry rather than the the area most susceptible to vibration. I place my feet in a diamond shaped configuration with significantly better resolution than corner placement.
Even the use of wooden platforms under components needs to be examined carefully. Most tone woods used in musical instruments are not used in compression, but under tension, at least in a guitar top or violin top or even a piano soundboard. To get the most of those tone woods, one must strive to replicate the conditions in which they are used in a musical instrument.
Obviously in certain conditions a compliant damping device may be beneficial, but one must look at the resonant frequencies involved.
Again YMMV.
Stu
I never claimed bamboo to be non-resonant. It's pointless to argue with you.
a better understanding of what we are all striving for.
Unfortunately, one of the issues I have is the indiscriminate usage of various terms: terms which often have inherent contradiction. Damping and resonance are two such terms, and I feel that the use of the two terms indiscriminately adds to the confusion.
When we change out the platforms and such, what exactly are we attempting to accomplish? If we are damping the component, then we want to kill all the inherent resonances in the component. On the other hand, if we use a tone wood we are obviously seeking to reinforce certain resonances. If the use of tone wood is beneficial, then quite obviously we do not want damping, do we?
Quite obviously, we want certain selective frequency reinforcement. The question then becomes what is the frequency reinforcement imparted by the use of various tone woods? It is my opinion that we only need to examine the usage of wood in musical instruments to learn of their frequency characteristics.
If you read my reply carefully, I was careful to note where certain aspects of sound change are desirable, even if it did involve damping. However, if a component is bright, accentuating the bottom end might be more positive than lopping off the top end. In order to make a great leap forward, I believe one must be careful in the "fine tuning" made to any system.
As I have already stated, YMMV
Stu
"The issue is not argument but a better understanding of what we are all striving for."
What hubris!
An issue becomes an argument if one disagrees with what another believes to be true and then attempts to defend their differing point of view. In this case, you seem to be rather certain that you know better than I about vibration control for audio applications in theory and practice, all the while being quite outspoken and preachy in your own oppositional opinions postured as facts. However, it's pointless to argue with you in this thread, since I see no need to defend my use of various vibration control devices and methods found acceptable by a number of other listeners, even though you may disapprove of such things and perhaps think me to be a misled ignorant audiophile who needs a proper education. Obstinate opposition and blatant grandstanding by regular posters in this forum has driven many inmates from participating in Tweakers' Asylum. There's no requirement to tolerate such condescension in a forum where freedom to experiment and share ones findings is paramount. While credibility as a regular poster in Audio Asylum is a vital thing to foster and protect, and even though your effort to negate my findings puts me in a difficult position, I refuse to defend myself through further argument within this particular thread. 'nuff said
Duster
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