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Brass seems to be the material of choice for the threaded rods of a flexy rack, but has anyone actually compared brass threaded rod to any other material in the same room and in the same system? I'm having a hard time paying 3x the price for brass without any actual proof of it being better.
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Use allthread with Acme Threads.
check link.
Normally used where strength is important....they also have different and better vibration transmission characteristics than regular threaded rod.
After all, the nut / rod interface is really where the vibes get transferred.
Too much is never enough
I dampened my steel rods by wrapping black 0plastic wire loom around them, looks better two
So it goes.........
Thanks. I plan on using 2" stainless tube around mine filled with lead shot and sand. That should make it pretty dead.
Now, there's a metal that really does sound bad. Ironic, huh?
geoffkait,
Do you work for that company Machine Dynamica or whatever it's called? The one that sells the little digital clock that you put in the same room as your stereo which is supposed to make it sound better?
Why do you ask? Do you have something against clocks?
I like clocks but I don't trust sundials much .........
Why don't you answer the question? Do you have something against honesty?
I guess I don't like answering dumb questions.
that will work
I am one to believe you can not over damp
Yes, I changed from a four shelf 3/4" steel threaded rod and hardware to 3/4" brass threaded rod and hardware. Albeit the room and equipment remained the same, I also changed shelf material from two pieces of 3/4" birch plywood glued together to 2" maple butcher block shelves; the same internally threaded 2" brass Audio Points were used as the rack to floor interface. Brass nuts (32) and washers (32) are used on each shelf, and brass acorn nuts (4) cap the top shelf. I can say without reservation that the brass and maple iteration was sonically far superior to the steel counterpart. Better dynamics, better tonality and better isolation in general. Brass is generally considered a 'musical' metal, whereas steel isn't.
That was around eight years ago, and the total cost was in the $600 range for all the materials (shelf material included) alone; I shudder to think what the cost would be today given metal values. I still use the same rack. I would have to move into something like an HR$ or Grand Prix rack to substantially better it in my opinion. I've had an Adona in my system, and preferred my maxi-flexi to it. YMMV and all that. Good luck.
Hmmmmmmm.....It's true there aren't many tubas and French horns made of steel. Not so sure I'd say brass is always more musical than steel when it comes to audio. Brass is not neutral, But everything is relative.
You also don't see any loudspeakers or component chassis made out of brass. The fact that brass is used for making instruments means nothing in this case, which is in the construction of a rack. I think it's a very weak argument for using brass in a rack and that argument is never, ever accompanied by proof or any reason what so ever. Hence my original question...
I'm not building a trumpet, I'm building a stereo rack. Forget what instruments are made of. I'm not building one. I just don't see what an instrument has to do with a rack. Am I missing something?
is a ferrous metal and thus captures magnetic fields, often retaining them. Considering that many audio components have rather large transformers, this can affect the sound and a non magnetic material is preferred. Since the magnetic/electrical fields generated by transformers move through any conductive material, a better (lower resistance) conductive material and one that is non magnetic is to be preferred. That's why most component chassis' are made of non magnetic material. That's why people like Counterpoint, who did make chassis out of steel, would copper plate the surfaces ( as well as older tube gear from 50's and 60's. like HK and Citation).
I ground all the metal legs of my racks and speaker stands to drain any current induced.
of course YMMV
Stu
I have a five shelf rack built with 3/4" black melamine and 3/4" zinc plated threaded rod, washers, and nuts; all of which a magnet will cling to. If I changed the hardware to stainless steel, which in the Hardware store I work at won't attract a magnet, what should I expect as improvemnent? My CD player and preamp are in the rack, the amp is 30' away via balanced cables. The turntable sits beside the rack on a low table.
See ya. Dave
can be OK is you ground the legs. It would be easy to do just add another nut so that you can fasten a ground wire. In my steel racks, I found that I had to ground both top and bottom of the rack as the steel has relatively high resistance and the there is a slight voltage potential between the top and bottom of the legs ( my racks are five feet tall).In discussing this issue with the folks at Sound Anchors they added a ground screw to their racks. In fact when the Townshend Seismic sinks were available I would add a ground screw to the sinks, too, with an improvement in the top end clarity.
As a simple experiment, try changing the mounting screws on your speakers to either brass or stainless steel. The increase in performance is very noticeable there. Brass is better because the higher copper content is electrically lower in resistance, but both, being non magnetic ( use the non magnetic stainless!) are an improvement over black iron (regular steel screws). Check on line if the appearance bothers you: black anodized stainless screws are available.
StuPS. another great place for changing hardware is the center bolt on toroidal power transformers. I use non conductive material there, like nylon bolts (available at marine hardware suppliers). Again the difference is noticeable: sweeter and the midrange and upper frequencies become clearer.
Of course YMMV. Those who have never tried it will never know.....
Edits: 02/08/12
"can be OK is you ground the legs. It would be easy to do just add another nut so that you can fasten a ground wire. In my steel racks, I found that I had to ground both top and bottom of the rack as the steel has relatively high resistance and the there is a slight voltage potential between the top and bottom of the legs ( my racks are five feet tall)."
May I ask where you tied the other ends of the eight ground wires too?
See ya. Dave
uncestew,
What is a speaker mounting screw? Do you mean a driver mounting screw? Most speakers have a steel or aluminum basket that seats against a wood or mdf speaker enclosure. Why would a screw of steel or brass "sound" different that a steel one? I mean, the screw is threaded into a piece of wood! Because it's screwed into wood, why in the world would it matter if the brass is lower in resistance? Why are you concerned about resistance in a "speaker mounting screw." You're not passing a current through it. If you could go through and answer my questions one by one it would be great.
Thanks,
various websites, particularly those who deal with mu metal.
Magnetic fields would rather travel through ferrous material than air or anything non magnetic. You can easily verify this by placing a strip of steel against a magnet. You can pick up something like paper clips at much farther distances than if there was only air between the magnet and the clips.
Any conductive material will generate a small current field and attempt to travel through the material. Quite obviously, brass is significantly more conductive than steel and thus will allow the magnetically induced current to move "faster". I have experimented with actually grounding the speaker baskets of my speakers, and there is a small but audible difference (smaller than just changing out the mounting screws).
Ever consider why manufacturers and designers prefer magnesium or aluminum speaker baskets? Are they really stiffer than steel? Not really (0r, at least, not necessarily), and the primary reason they sound "better" is that they are non magnetic.
Again try a simple experiment. Since most tweeters have sealed magnet structures, try taking out one screw from the tweeter mounting. You need to do it to only one side and only one screw. The sound of the tweeter will "pull" towards the location of the screw you removed. Or you can try using a longer steel screw and listen to the effect it has on the sound.
You are not just dealing with the mechanical aspects here, but the actual magnetic field being generated by the drivers (or transformers, etc.
In the case of toroidal transformers, after a long play time, place your finger against the center mounting screw. Note the temperature and compare it to the transformer body itself. It will be hotter as the magnetic field is attempting to do work by inducing a current through the mounting screw.
Try placing a large steel washer on the top of your speaker cabinet, right above where your tweeter magnet would be located. It will "pull" the magnetic field towards the washer and you will hear the top end extend further upwards. Place on the side ( use a bit of blue tack) and you will hear the sound "pull" again towards the washer. It works similarly for all the drivers.
Stu
You can star ground the wires, as copper has a significantly lower resistance in comparison to steel. I preferred to terminate the wires to the third prong of my duplex outlet,
Stu
I don't know, Jive. Probably nothing. All of your components have a lot of steel fasteners, brackets, tabs, etc. in them. If steel was bad to have around stereo components, reputable manufacturers would not use steel pieces. Nobody will be able to provide you with any proof that your steel threaded rods and hardware are "bad" for your sound.
nt
See ya. Dave
Any conductor which is in a magnetic field will have induced current, and presumably a secondary field. I have built a shaded pole motor out of aluminum...and NO wire in the rotating part of the motor. The electrical coil part was standard copper wire and the 'core' was steel rods set in glyptol.
Too much is never enough
Actually, the Berning EA2-150 amp chassis, to name one, is brass. Whether brass was chosen for its sonic qualities in this case is difficult to say. I'm not a big fan myself of brass but I do know that cryoing brass rods makes them sound better, like brass instruments.
geoffkait,
Brass rods for what? In a rack? Can you post some details about your experience in cryoing brass?
I used four 2 foot long threaded rods in my Nimbus Sub-Hertz isolation platform of yore. I used hardened steel rods in some models and cryo'd brass rods for others. The cryo'd brass rods ring less than stock brass rods.
Did you try non-cryod brass first and then cryod brass later in the same platform in the same exact application?
Is there anything that doesn't sound better cryo'd?
OK, you don't have the requisite experience to say that cryod brass sounds better than non-cryod brass in your isolation platform. I thought that might have been the case but wanted to make sure. Thanks.
I've been cryoing audio items since Jesus was a Lieutenant. Everything sounds better after cryo including brass rods.
Edits: 02/02/12
But you have no experience with non-cryod brass AND cryod brass in the same application. You do not have the experience to make that claim, end of story.
I think you misunderstood me. I have experience with both non cryo'd brass and cryo'd brass in the same application.
Thanks, Richard. I wonder if the shelf material, threaded rod, or a combination of each was responsible for the sonic change. No way to know!
I'm at about $700 for materials alone so far, and I got a very good deal on my maple shelf material. I also bought 17" of 2" OD brass rod for my footers which ends up much cheaper than buying pre-made footers.
One thing I forgot to add - aesthetically speaking, the brass looks really sharp and you'll never have to worry about rust. However, you are correct - with everything changed, there's really no way to tell. I would also say that brass is not necessarily an uncolored metal sonically (if there's even such a thing...stainless? titanium? niobium?) and that its lack of inclusion in chassis material (for example) most likely arises from its softness relative to materials like steel or even certain alloys of aluminum (and hence its use as a metal for musical instruments). Let us know what you decide.
Thanks Richard. I'm actually leaning toward stainless steel right now as I have not yet heard a strong argument for brass (appearance doesn't mean anything in my case as the threaded rods will be inside of a tube). To be honest, I don't think even the most resolving system will reveal a difference in rod material in this application, but that's just my gut feeling.
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