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than I can remember. I needed to get some small speakers off the floor and used (NEVER do this) some fruit crates to lift them about 2 1/2 feet. Cup your hands over your mouth and nose talk to someone, and that "closed in a box" sound is exactly what the fruit crates did with the sound.
Placing them on some cherry-wood stands, a box that needs filled with sand, was shockingly better. Amazingly better. I'm looking forward to spring when I can go dig some decent sand at the quarry (it's frozen hard now). I imagine the difference will be equal in mind-boggling improvement. I'd go buy a bag of sand, but I imagine I'd have to call a few places or visit a number of them before I found any sand.
Nothing unexpected, of course, but a reminder that supports do make a world of difference.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
Follow Ups:
For years I used cinder blocks for mini monitor stands. You get them in different sizes to make up the height you need for your particular monitor. Think about it....a concrete stand.....yep sand!! They look like crap but are....well....rock solid like concrete. They look better painted flat black. A little blu-tac and the monitors are coupled to a rock.
Ahh yes,
One of my early recommendations. Circa 2001 I believe.
You can skim plaster the blocks too, and then paint them - I bronze paint-effected some once, looked really cool.
Owen
"I'd go buy a bag of sand, but I imagine I'd have to call a few places or visit a number of them before I found any sand."Most hardware stores carry Play Sand which comes in 40 lb bags and relatively cheap (~$7.00/bag) and is very fine and suitable for your stands. I've used it many times through the years. One caution though is to dry the sand thoroughly before putting it into the stands as sand can hold a lot of moisture and cause rust/rot if it still contains moisture. The quickest and best way is to pour some into a large baking pan and dry it in the oven at about 200 deg. After 10 minutes, use a large spoon to move it around and allow the remainder to dry.
When you are done you will notice the volume is smaller, which shows just how much moisture was in the sand int he first place.
Good luck!
Cogito Ergo Credo
Edits: 02/09/11
Before anyone asks - no, I don't share SS phobia. All my gear is solid state.
Both systems have tube preamps, both have SS amps.
I think that combo sounds great with phono, but for everything else, too.
I've listened to all SS configurations in my house and all tube, too. It ain't transistors against tubes, it's good sound...or sadly, bad.
Right now I'm listening to a Dyna P75 SS phono pre into a Cary tube preamp which feeds an AVA SS amp.
I think anyone listening would enjoy the LP I just played (and its sound, of course). And it is severely crippled with terrible electric connections (nothing worse than a power strip and an Adcom Ace).
I have GOT to save up my pennies and get another BrickWall or something else in that price range. All this equipment and nothing to help protect it! Hey Earl (hope you see this), get busy!
The other system has two BrickWalls, and the 8 outlets on one are completely filled. The two on the amp filter are filled with the Monarchy amps (Anthem tube pre).
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
The BORG has clean sand, I use it for sandblasting.
I'd go buy a bag of sand, but I imagine I'd have to call a few places or visit a number of them before I found any sand.
Do you have a well-stocked nursery nearby?
The one I go to sells small bags of very fine sand for things like table top zen gardens and the like. It's about the same fineness as sugar, perhaps even a slight bit finer. It works very well for damping/mass loading speaker stands.
se
Prove it.
Prove it.
se
Edits: 02/10/11
NT
A very fine nursery in the area.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
A very fine nursery in the area.
Great!
If you'd like, I'd be happy to send you a small sample of the sand that I've got so they'll know exactly what you're looking for.
se
nt
nt
nt
to mix with litter...vastly different textures/grains.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
but make sure you mix the materials that you use to fill your stands with. Something dense and heavy with something light. I use catnip (the light powdery clay stuff) with steel chippings. Lots of people seem to use catnip with lead shot.
It became a revelation when I started experimenting with the stuff. What seems to work best, and removes more of the sonic signature of whatever is supporting the speakers than anything else, is a ratio of 1/3 steel to 2/3 catnip. To that, the stands should only be 2/3 full (or rather 1:1.618, as in the golden ratio). I went through about a dozen different combinations, filling and emptying every time, and the approach I've described was as good as it got, clearly.
The interface between the stands and the speakers is another story.
Japesgalore presumably you tried lead shot alone - does lead shot have a signature you could detect or is it just not as good as in combo with powdered clay (which presumably is ceramic)? Thanks in advance.
Never tried lead shot, wouldn't know where to get it. It was steel chippings (atakama atabytes or some shit) that I messed around with, which would presumably have a more ringy nature to it than lead shot.
The difference was not subtle. 100% full with steel, ie the heaviest, sounded thin and bright. 100% cat litter actually had a dull sound. 60% did seem better than 50% in both cases - the clay was getting light though and had a smaller impact.
Once the two were mixed it sounded like the stands were less 'there'. Again, 66%ish full had a better signature than other proportions. Can't remember if I tried different proportions of the material, ie 50/50 clay/steel, but I think the reasoning for 2/3 clay seemed sound as the steel did have a much stronger signature when used alone.
The stands are Partington Super Dreadnaughts ($250 new) which have a larger central chamber and 4 mini chambers near the corners. Read somewhere once that by filling identical chambers with a varying amount of filler would further reduce resonance but haven't tried it myself.
Where they are at now is just fine but, even with the Sonic Design feet and Herbie's grungebuster material under the speakers, I'm able to discern a difference when something is changed under the stands eg types of spikes or base. Don't think I'll be revisitng that though, it's as good as it'll get...maybe.
Hope this helps
I got mine from Reloaders Supplies (and friends of mine have also). Think gun supply shops and ammunition supply. Yep its a shame you weren't able to do a comparison with lead, it would have been pretty interesting. Thanks for your reply.
Of course you meant cat litter, but that was good for a chuckle. Fill them stands with catnip and they'll be kitty's new favorite scratching posts!
Yeah I always get the two confused. I thought cat litter was cat shit?
Bwahahahahaha! Thanks for the first laugh of the morning!
between the stands and speakers or would good ol' BlueTak be a better choice.
I have a roll of two sided carpet tape (sticky on both sides) that has a bit of "give" to it. Years ago I used it to keep a light weight component (don't ask 'cause I don't remember) from sliding off the rack.
It just occurred to me to use it for the Hagerman step-up and on the office system, the Dyna P75. Both of which are lighter than their ICs, both sets in the case of the Hagerman.
I knew I kept it around for a reason!
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
I've used them under my monotors for years with fantastic results. I tried many interfaces including blue tac and several varieties of cones, cork, rubber, etc. Vibrapods gave the best balance of excellent clarity and musicality, and the most tunefull bass.
I have a pair of LSA1 Statements on "man made ebony" stands, which is really plastic and newspapers. It has diamond points with cups that you put under your speakers to keep them from being scratched. I replaced them with Vibrapods last year for about one half an hour. They resulted in no dynamics, an ill-defined sound stage, and no bass.
I then used StillPoints OEM feet, which preceded their Ultra SS isolation feet. I worried about the speakers sliding off and thought of Blue Tac. I put balls of it on top of each of the heads of the OEMs which have a slight depression. I pressed the speakers down and found they were quite secure, but again much was lost in my sound. I took the speakers off and put only a very small ball that just touched the speaker with the walls of the StillPoints still in direct contact with the speakers. This was much, much better and was secure.
I dislike anything soft used in isolation, especially after my more recent experiences with the StillPoint Ultra Stainless Steel feet, which make other isolation devices seem totally worthless if not harmful.
I tried to like them, tried in lots of different applications. I was fooled a few times until I tried what I'd removed.
I have every size, about 20-30 of them altogether, do you know anyone who would like them?
I do have to say they were good enough to fool me, but in the end all were removed.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
Never tried them. Did mess around with various bog standard foam until I went for Sonic Design feet. I now sing their praises as they did even better than any Herbie's products I've tried there. That's saying something because Herbie's stuff I use everywhere else, as well as a thin layer of grungebuster material between the SD feet and speaker (which definitely took them to the next level). I'd definitely try Herbie's though, he's got some great value stuff and very well engineered.
My personal preference is natural cork. Specifically high grade instrument cork.
You can get it at corkstore.com
se
I've used small adhesive backed cork pads in the past as an interface between speakers and stands. Often overlooked, it worked out well with a notably punchy, well defined bass amongst other positive qualities. Inexpensive and worth trying.
Edits: 02/09/11
IME, placing a thin felt pad upon a thin cork pad is an effective pairing for placement under a tonewood plinth. Perhaps the combo might be satisfactory as a loudspeaker/stand interface, as well...
I might try that under the ceramic base of my 47 Labs Shigaraki 4717 transport. I've already had good results with Herbie's Isocups and balls and also 1/2" Gatorfoam.
The small one nearby has saved my rear-end quite a few times. I got the aluminum strips I used to damp/reinforce my Anthem preamp from them.
The cover was a thin, thin, thin piece of steel that rang with a clarity that surpasses that of the Liberty Bell before it cracked.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
Yes, those can work too.
I just fell in love with the instrument cork though. Could just be a purely aesthetic thing. I love its beauty as much as anything.
se
The house was a high-end home with Bose radio. Such a shame, the place was gorgeous.
Hmmm, it just occurred to me, I'll ask at Vinyl.
How about a big slab of cork instead of the thick rubber mat on my Kenwood?
Will it damp the noise from the bearing/motor as well as the rubber mat.
Gotta go do a search at Vinyl.
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
A 50 Lb bag is less than $5...
Specially graded sand that has been washed, dried and screened.
Edits: 02/08/11
I could go over there, they could load the sand on top of my scooter, and then I'd get it home. But I'd have to carry it in one scoop at a time.
Sorry, not raggin' on you, it's just that ANYTHING that is heavy, to me, is immovable. I seem to figure out a way to move it EVERY time, sooner or later.
I'd keep the bag in the garage anyway, and they would load it in the car...problem solved! It needs to go into the stands a scoop at a time anyway!
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Heck if I know! I ain't no genius.
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