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In Reply to: RE: Partsconnexion.com is shipping counterfeit Oyaide Plugs! posted by Joseph Cohen on December 10, 2008 at 22:18:43
Before you "slam" a reputable dealer, I would be very interested in PX response once you informed them of their transgression. What was their response???
Follow Ups:
I have done allot of personal business with Partsconnexion.com and have always found them to be professional, knowledgeable, and extremely helpful. When I read the above post, I sent the President of Partsconnexion.com an email alerting them of the above noted allegation. I am not affiliated with Partsconnexion.com, only a hobbyist who has been helped out in the past by pcX
With permission of Partsconnexion.com, here is their response.
pcX has recently been made aware that some of it's OYAIDE stock (purchased form a Japanese 3rd party), may contains some counterfeit material:
- pcX was unaware that OYAIDE had a counterfeit problem.....or, that our Oyaide stock was counterfeit
- pcX has removed this OYAIDE product from it's shelves (it's no longer for sale).
- pcX has removed this OYAIDE product from both it's newsletter and website, effective immediately
- pcX will be contacting any and all customers who bought any of this stock, to offer full refunds or exchanges immediately.
We apologize for this unfortunate situation...in the end, it will be pcX (not it's customers) who will suffer from being defrauded.
Any questions, please feel free to contact Chris Johnson at info@partsconnexion.com
pcX admits that they purchased "Oyaide" goods from a third party in Japan. This is clearly outside proper channels. Not only did pcX know that The Lotus Group is the authorized distributor for North America, but they had signed our e-commerce agreement, and have been telling us since 2006 that they were about to place their first order. We only saw the photos of counterfeit product on their website for the first time this week. When we had confirmation that they were shipping bogus product we had no recourse but to alert the public that they were being defrauded and endangered.
pcX's response to our post makes it sound as though they are the innocent victim. They have been dealing with us for over two years. They even responded to us this week over our complaint that their sale violated our e-commerce agreement as though they were being a good customer, but even their response did not rise to the level of our agreement. They did not warn us that they were purchasing elsewhere, nor did they bother to examine Oyaide’s website, which has a counterfeit warning when you first enter their English site. This counterfeit issue has been widely known for at least a couple of years. pcX did not even do their due diligence with regard to acquiring product through illegitimate channels.
Joseph Cohen
The Lotus Group
I recently purchased and received two pair of these 079's from Partsconnexion (cardboard box, no hologram), and made two PC's that I will now have to take apart so that I can get a refund. I have spent my money (and my time) on a product that I thought was made by a well-established, highly regarded manufacturer, and not some knock-off shop. At a minimum, I will be out the heatshrink, quicksilver gold, possibly techflex, and for sure my time - even if they do refund me for the plugs.
I have happily purchased from Partsconnexion for some years, and never expected I would have to "verify" the authenticity of products received from them. I was certainly disappointed to read about this, and while your discussion is pursuasive, I cannot believe Partsconnexion truly attempted to sell counterfit products to arguably one of the most anal groups on the planet - a bunch of DIY audiophiles! I will trust there is a better explanation.
Perhaps you should keep one intact to see if it's really sounds any differently than the one from the manufacturer with mystique.
Rick
Its unfortunate they got taken by fakes.
If you don't like them buying real products from some other source, simply stop selling to them.
If the manufacturer cuts you out of the pipe line, take it up with the manufacturer, not the retailer.
Bob
"He (R.M. Nixon) was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
Thanks goodness you've been able to save me from not getting the point about the fake parts PartsConnection got stuck with. I don't know why I though what they bought weren't real Oyaide parts.
What can I do to overcome not understanding this phrase "..counterfeit Oyaide plugs.."?
How can I recognize when a word, defining a noun, such as plug, is too dense for me to comprehend?
Maybe you need to define this phrase, "..bogus products.." for anyone else like me afflicted with the brain impartment of "Not Getting the Point", that cannot figure out the relationship of the adjective bogus, to this noun, product.
Bob, trying to understand my native language, American English
"He (R.M. Nixon) was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
Parts Connection was not buying "real" Oyaide products, they were buying fakes. If they were purchasing legitimate Oyaide products, they would have placed their orders and received product through Joe Cohen and the Lotus Group, who is the authorized importer for North America. Further, Oyaide did not "cut him (sic) out of the pipe line"....Oyaide had nothing to do with the products Parts Connection was buying out of mainland China, or wherever those fake parts originated.
There is a long history of fake and grey market products originating out of China. Some of the top luxury companies in the world have been victim to these practices (want to buy a Gucci handbag for $20?). 60 Minutes and 6moons have covered some of these stories. Now Oyaide, over the last couple of years, has become one of the latest victims in the audio world. There are a lot of high-end electronics and cabling floating around for sale all over the world....reliability is often questionable, and the buyer has zero recourse. It pays to make your purchases through an authorized dealer or distributor, don't you think?
... it that the "real thing" is more often than not made in China as well.
I used to know of a factory that made Armani suits/jackets trousers.
After they filled the original/authentic orders, they continued to make them in different fabrics. Still very high quality. Exactly the same cut. These "fakes" hit the shops at between 25-50% of the price of the "real thing".
As no one ever stocked the entire range no one ever knew.
Many
brands" now just buy in and have their labels added.
This is actually a very grey area.
Very true. Srajan mentions in his Guangzhou show report and.or Melody factory tour the same gray market and R & D (rip-off and duplicate) problems faced by a number of audio manufacturers. In most cases, small manufacturers are helpless....in other cases they aren't even aware of the problem until a customer contacts the distributor in a given country, asking for return authorization for a repair. Then the manufacturer finds out that the piece in question wasn't even produced by their factory. There are many stories like this all over the world. The crux of the matter is greed by unethical shadow manufacturers, and a willing public interested in getting a bargain. And the beat goes on.
Yes, we fall for it, but are NOT the crux of the problem. A willing public knowingly buying stolen goods would be; same thing knowing they're buying knockoffs are not complaining. Complaints come from those ripped off by the seller. Let's be very clear about the diff!
... you are merely protecting a monopoly position for the USA (as I understand your posts).
As opposed to your first post, your problem now seems to be more that PX are buying from someone else.
And presumably cheaper.
I have only your posts here as sources for information, and I am certainly not calling you a liar, but the emphasis in your successive posts has changed and I have to say it sounds dubious to me.
I would add I have no connection to any of the companies involved, but I have spent parts of my life writing copy and I kn ow how to read emphasis.
Of course that does tend to make me just the tiniest bit cynical about... oooo just about everything emerging from corporations.
Edits: 12/11/08
....if Parts Connection was honoring their e-commerce agreement with Lotus Group USA, they wouldn't be buying these fakes in the first place. All their orders would be placed through Lotus Group USA....simple and easy.
Why? Because Lotus Group USA is the AUTHORIZED North American Importer.
It reads as if PX have never bought anything from Lotus.
I am not sure what an e-commerce agreement is but I presume it places a trade restriction on someone.
If these products are genuinely (!!!) fakes then I would have thought that the Japanese seller would be liable for prosecution.
Maybe PX as well.
Perhaps someone could post pictures of both products and packaging so that we could compare them.
I assume the "fakes" must be labelled as Oyaide because otherwise the difference in packaging (and as has been pointed out, the plating) would make them a different product.
If (as has also been posted here) the "fakes" are indeed better, then it would suggest a reason for bringing the subject up.
Again I am not making accusations just saying that this is how it reads.
I think it best for Joe Cohen to address the bulk of your questions and comments. Personally, I've received repeated e-mail solicitations over the last couple of years from one particular overseas company offering Oyaide fakes....I can't be the only dealer/manufacturer receiving these (if you get my drift).
As far as the one guy who prefers the fake, further discussion will only open a Pandora's box of negativity....he's an ex-Oyaide and Acrolink dealer and pursuant to his previous posts on the Asylum (you are welcome to do a search), seems to have a disdain for Japanese products and perhaps all things Japanese.
I wasn't aware of the background, which, of course, does not invalidate things but casts another shadow on matters.
I agree that perhaps Joe Cohen could post pictures and more details.
Of course I can understand that the last thing he really wants to do is to advertise these products but he has started this by opening the thread.
In speaking with Joe about these matters, his intent was not to advertise but to inform. He cares very, very much about his customers, and those of his many dealers. Fake is fake, illegitimate is illegitimate. He's alerting anyone who might have gotten an inferior product, through no fault of their own.
It's a shame that Parts Connection got caught in this conundrum....I've never heard anything but praise over the many years they've been in business, and heretofore have enjoyed a sterling reputation.
That's lame on their part. Caveot Emptor!
ET
....but Joe is attempting to inform consumers about purchasing an illegitimate product, so they won't be suffering from "caveat emptor".
Yes this has turned into the emptor-porium! I'm glad this info is here on AA. I bought my Oyaide from Lotus/Cryo parts and VH Audio. I'm safe!
ET
M1
WPC-Z
SWO-XXX
R-1 (2)
MT-UB (DIY Outlet strip)
I put the R-1's in the outlet strip. I think the WPC-Z is the most impressive product and was a bit disappointed with the M-1.
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