In Reply to: In fact, marble is known to ring more than other substances ... posted by andyr on August 10, 2004 at 05:01:34:
I was thinking that perhaps glass and marble might be harmonically perfect for setting up more vibrations, however, that thought escaped my head when I realized that I have carpet underneath the rack and that the rack itself (Spectral) is pretty well damped to begin with. The glass is extra thick and is quite capable of supporting a lot of weight, so armed with these details, adding the slab of marble added not only additional weight to the rack(Spectral) aiding damping even further, I also noticed that the Krell does not vibrate as it did before, not that it was severe to begin with. The vibration I felt earlier on the side of the unit as I turned up the volume, big B&W's 800's up front throwing the sound picture was all but gone. Of course with any loud music if one were to turn the volume very loud anything is subject to some sort of harmonic vibrations, ask my pictures on the walls:)-,
I probably could have saved some bucks doing the concrete slabs, heck I probably could have done it myself, but I don't have time to work on such projects. It took me 2 weeks to just put the marble in the racks:) aftre I had them delivered home.
BTW, I do not believe in damping the devices directly with feet or pods, had heard many pros and cons, but the KRELL brochure recommends against such actions. The tap on the side of the KRELL results in a profound thump as does the rack glass itself. If I do get time I will experiment more with the concrete, that is so great about tweaking, but how can I get the concrete to be in Pearl Gray like my marble?
I own a Wadia 861 player which is built like a tank (20 odd kgs). I found an improvement by using DH ceramic cones over the standard isolating feet. The player sits on an attractive substance called hardwood, which is itself isolated by another set of DH cones.
I think if you explored isolation more you may become a believer, as the setup you describe would probably sound a bit bright.
Construct a box about 2" deep or more the size of the marble slab. 3/4" MDF or solid wood of your choice will work fine. Fill the box with dry sand and place the marble on the sand.
Norm, I just went to the Ikea Lack table set-up (it sucks) until the first of the year when I will be changing almost my entire sytem.
I placed my Neuance platform on top of the Lack table with and without DH Labs ceramic cones between the Neuance and my transport. The sound still sucked. The soundstage was very diffuse and muddled. Sounded so bad it was like my system was wired out of phase.
I could place my hand on top of my transport with heavy bass material and it would vibrate like crazy. I was stunned because I had previously been sold on the Neuance platforms. But prior to my Lack table fiasco, I had been using a heavy MDF cabinet and the Neuance seemed to make an improvement. However, my transport nor the heavy MDF cabinet was vibrating like the Lack tables.
At a loss, I simply began to experiment. I finally found a solution that works phenomenally well in my system. I kept the Lack tables since I had gone to all the trouble of having a friend buy them on the mainland and ship them over. (Ikea doesn't ship them and there are no Ikeas in Hawaii.)
Beginning with my transport, I decided to try using the DH Labs ceramic cones under my components, sitting on top of an appropriately selected Vibrapod. Since the cones won't sit directly on top of the Vibrapod without something between the two, I went to Home Depot and asked for some 2 x 3 inch Formica sample chips that they have hanging on pegboards.
I simply put the Formica chips under the cones and on top of the Vibrapod and I was stunned when I hit the play button. My system has never sounded this good. And I couldn't feel any vibration with my hand on my transport. That's not to say it doesn't exist, but I couldn't feel it with my hand any longer.
Needless to say my Neuance is now sitting in a closet. I realize that what works in my system may not work in everyone else's, but IN MY SYSTEM, the Neuance was clearly inferior to the cones,Formica,Vibrapod solution.
If it isn't working for you,just send it back and I'll issue you a full refund.No prob.
I am troubled by your description regarding the effect on the soundstage as being "very diffuse and muddled" & "out of phase" as this runs quite counter to any response that I've ever received out of several thousand clients, many of whom also use the IKEA Lack sidetable as a basic support structure.
Clarity, focus and precision of the soundstage are generally considered hallmarks of the product.Something just isn't right.
Two possibilities come immediately to mind:
When you installed the Lack sidetable,were the legs glued in place and did you install spikes to the legs, adjusting them evenly in contact with the floor? What you're describing sounds more like a stability or rocking/rattling issue.
Another concern that could result in this type of sonic degradation is that of a lamination/bonding failure of the composite shell structure.Have you noted any loss of dynamics and/or tonal/frequency related anomolies? If so, I suspect a defective unit.
Anywhoo... if you would, please shoot that pup on back for a full refund and to allow me the opportunity to inspect it.If there's a problem ,I'd definately like to know.
Thanks for your generous offer, but I will keep it for another try in the future when I upgrade my entire system next year, including my equipment rack.
And don't take it personally, Ken. I just had similar results with Sistrum cones and spikes. The Sistrum products made little difference in my system also.
My suspended hardwood floor was vibrating really badly prior to de-coupling my speakers. After de-coupling there was a dramatic improvement. But I can still feel the Lack tables vibrating on heavy bass material from airborne energy. Fortunately, the solution described in my post above has worked wonders. In my room, coupling simply hasn't worked. Decoupling has.
When I had a heavy MDF cabinet for my equipment, your shelf improved my system, but the Lack tables were vibrating so heavily that it didn't seem to make any difference. And yes, I put the Lack tables together as described, but I did not glue the legs on. I used the screw-in connectors that came with the tables and screwed them down tightly. And I used spikes under all the legs.
My suspended hardwood floor spans 14 feet with no support underneath and my floor was a major issue until I decoupled my speakers. I have three new screw jacks to use under my floor with 16 ft. timbers to run perpendicular under my floor joists to add support. I just haven't gotten around to installing them yet. Since I de-coupled my speakers I haven't felt the need to put the jack and timbers under my floor, but I am sure I would probably still derive some benefit.
And there is no de-lamination of your shelf that I have seen. It looks as good as the day I received it except for a small 1/4 scratch from a sharp cone. Other than that it appears to be in great shape. No worries, I want to keep it to try next year when I purchase a new rack (possibly a Sistrum system). If you would like to examine it, I will be happy to send it to you, but I don't want a refund. I really do want to try it in the future after I have re-vamped my system. (The Lack tables are going in the garbage after the first of the year, though!)
Thanks again for the offer. And I have a great deal of respect for your business ethics.
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