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I guess I've taken the hoarding of tuners to the next level, but I need your advice in any event. I've had a cabinet/shelving unit built to house my 20 tuners, and I would like to use some type of switching device to be able to allow the selection and playing of any one tuner.
So, I was looking at purchasing two of the Kramer Electronics VS-101AV switching units. Each Kramer unit has 10 inputs each for both audio and composite video. Therefore, here are my questions: (1) Can the composite video connection be used for FM connectivity? (2) Would you see an issue using this type of device to allow for switching of FM tuners? My goal is to connect each 10-position switch to one of my AUX inputs on my preamp and then I could select to hear a tuner by selecting the proper AUX input on my tuner, and then selecting the proper input on the Kramer. (3) Or, is there a better choice or approach you would recommended?
Now, I do understand that I still have to figure out how I'm going to have to split the initial coax from the antennae and then split each resulting lead into 10 more so each lead can be connected to the back of a tuner (which will then be connected by both coax and audio cables) to the Kramer. Any ideas on how to do this without excessive "loss" would also be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob.
Follow Ups:
Man! I thought I was going to be able to find some easy/straightforward way to switch between tuners. This was not for comparison purposes but, rather, just to be able to listen to a different tuner every day.
When I get back home from all this traveling I am going to have to start incorporating all of your suggestions as appropriate. Heck, if nothing else, I can just sit in the dark and turn them all on at look at the light show! I'd rather have them all "available" without a lot a cable switching, however.
To accomplish "tuner shootouts" for our local audio club, years ago I made up a switch box that simultaneously switched the 75 ohm antenna and L/R audio connections between 3 tuners. Need the box, a three section multi-pole switch, a bunch of RCA and F connectors. There are 24 position switches available (3 section?) so what you want could be done.Worked fine for our needs. I still have the box if anyone could use it.
Charles
Edits: 06/26/14
downloads via a cable straight into each of two or three tuners, via a switch. Try to overload each one and then back off the transmitter's gain.
Then choose the best of those, and then proceed eliminating, until you have found the - one - you like most.
Another way to speed up the elimination is to check at Tuner Information Center for each of your tuners and just listen to those that have really good ratings. And again chose one and perhaps one as a reserve.
If one tuner has the highest TIC rating and you don't think it's up to scratch? Still, sell all the others and fund a rebuild and alignment for it and the next best.
Than sell the rest and buy / build the best possible antenna for the stations you actually want.
IME - If you have plenty of signal strength* on all desired stations - a valve front end is best. A valve MPX stage is not essential. Good caps and Rs in the MPX are vital.
* NB most signal strength meters on most tuners are exaggerating if not lying jades. Until you do have a lot of signal - when the needle might move into the last 10% of the available arc.
Only up in that range do tuners really go quiet, and their distortion will fall too.
LBNLeast? Frankly unless you have one or two really good-sounding stations nearby - IE that use minimal processing - compression and Eq - and I believe that is rare in the USA? ...... Why bother?
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I'm on the other side of this. Here in Phoenix, there is a classical station KBAQ. I don't know how they do it, but the sound is excellent and I listen to it all the time I work, and I work entirely too much. I have tried about a dozen tuners, and my favorite draws me in many times a day to just stop and listen. I also play LP's and CD's but there is a quality to the sound that is different and exceptional. It is a Scott tube tuner, and yes is isn't the lowest distortion and most head room of the sources, but I sure like it.
I didn't do what midshipman is doing, but if I had to, to get to this point, I would have.
Driven hard - this is vital - a valve front end can eat most SS tuners alive.Good sounding valve MPX stages need a fair few valves to sound good.
SS MPX stages inside a valve tuner can deliver far higher ROI.
IMO the reason valve front end tuners sound so good these day is their resistance to overload from strong out of band RF signals. Very few SS tuners have similar resistance.
I listen to two good stations - with zero or minimal dynamic range compression - locally. One of them broadcasts simple stereo recordings of live concerts made locally, some of them recorded by me. The other one is a national network and it broadcasts lots of concerts, many are direct live broadcasts.
Valve circuit's PSUs can store large amounts of energy, and give very good filtering aka ripple rejection.
So, IF your tuner sounds relaxed and calm, that's a good sign. Not a bad one. Stick with the Scott, it is telling you the truth about the signal.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 06/29/14 06/29/14 06/29/14
It's too hard to distribute the antenna, too expensive to level match and then use the SAME interconnect on each plus the cost of a switching device which will degrade sound some percentage.
ET
Bob,
don't forget every time you split the signal, youre going to add 3 db of noise.
I would look for some sort of RF switch, or if you want to try an amplifier, you might want to try one of the CAVT Drop Amps. They are among the quietest units out there for dist. service.
http://www.dropamp.com/
That is a great idea. When you have it up and running, please post your findings. I recently had the opportunity to go back and listen to a number of tuners I acquired in a quest to find one that I really liked. For the most part my memory served me pretty well, but there were some surprises.
I wish I had something to add to your question, but the suggestions you already have should get you there. One thing I did notice here in Phoenix is the difference in fidelity station to station. It looks like you are from Chicago, my favorite stations there were WXRT and WFMT.
One problem with doing so many comparisons with tuners is the music material will not be the same and memory retention ecept in general impressions soon fade. It will require a good checklist and note taking for each tuner and likely going back again and again for some time. For 20 tuners, having evaluated units for so many years, the project, if each tuner was relatively decent could take a couple of years. The only way to shorten it up and have meaning is to would be to set up a FM transmitted to control the music for content and repeat-ability if the sound is a criteria. The tunerinfo shootout was to determine the dx'ing ability more than the sound quality of the tuner and in some cases while the dx'ing ability seems consistent based on my experiences the short comments as to sound quality are not consistent with my evaluations of the same model a number of which I had in system for as long as 6-months and others for years.
An interesting project, none the less and a great way to justify to others the rationale for having tuners stacked to the ceiling and not as my wife continually states there seems not reason to keep so much dust gathering things that never get used. Of course, with amps it is different: 20 amps & 20 sets of speakers all playing at the same time is rationale and justifiable, at least to some of us.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
"by selecting the proper AUX input on my tuner," You lost me with this part of the suggestion.
I am not sure what is in the video selector. If the same as the sound in terms of wiring then it should be okay as it is simply passing through the hi-level signal to the Aux input on the preamp.
There are a couple of problems to deal with, though. 1) if trying to compare tuners, you need to pad there outputs to the same voltage and load so the level is the same. Commercial switch systems used in stores or, at least the better ones, had attenuators on each input to do this.
The antenna is a whole 'nother issue. To split an antenna signal to feed 20 tuners will require an antenna with very good gain and to do a decent job should be directional and have a rotor. So far pretty standard. The you are going to have to use a distribution amplifier to make up for the losses and maintain the impedance. A home style am I doubt will provide enough gain and minimum loss to distribute to 20 sets; I suspect you are looking at a commercial unit similar to those used in apartments, hotels, etc. and these are not inexpensive. A better way may be a switchbox where the antenna line goes in and you can switch to 1 of the 20 antenna inputs on the tuner. You will need good switches and connectors to keep loss at a minimum as the signal level is lower than even a phono preamp. This approach would preclude using 2 at a time but as you are using a switcher for the signal it would appear you intend to use only one at a time.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
and does the target switcher's spec'n give you this information, yes out to 500Mhz?Given that the runs are not long from tuners to switcher (yes?), and to the amplifier / pre-amp (yes?) you could probably get away with a thinnish gauge of 75ohm coax that will fit into RCA plugs for the switcher in and out.
This does all depend on how good* the FM antenna* you'll be using actually is. If it has plenty of gain* and rejects multi-path well, then feed-line and switch-contact losses become less important. That is, you may not need an RF amplifier before the switcher units. ? * IMO there is little point in comparing tuners unless all of them are being driven into full limiting*.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 06/19/14 06/19/14 06/19/14
... it didn't have an FM trap.
This one's only got 8 outputs, but it's illustrative of the types of gizmos that were widespread in the days of apartment buildings with TV antennas on the roof! See link below.
all the best,
mrh
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