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In Reply to: RE: I have to disagree. posted by jihad on September 25, 2011 at 18:09:07
There are still many great cities for FM reception in the US.
And 98% of the benefit of a roof mounted antenna can be had by selecting the limited number of models still available to buy. As the FM antenna gets bigger and bigger, with more elements, the gain and other benefits diminish very quickly over say a 6 element FM antenna. Of course, almost all the advantage comes from being on the roof, and on a rotor.
Here in my location near Albany NY I get 5 college stations, 3 are decent. I get 6 additional public stations, all but one in stereo, and one of those plays alternative / folk / rock. Two of them play classical all day, and two more play jazz at night. All over the air stations. I regularly hear live concerts broadcast.
On the commercial side, I've noticed less commercials, and many stations changing formats on an almost yearly or every few years basis. What was there a year ago, or even 6 months ago may have changed for the better.
I also noticed less interest in buying/selling everything audio in general, but it seems to be a lot better now than it was in 2008/2009.
There may have been a little bubble for FM tuners, probably due in some part to our launch of www.FMTunerinfo.com site in late 2001. This really opened up a lot of interest and information on the subject, which before that, was relatively sparse.
But, than again, people forget what the tuner market was like 5 years before that. You could buy top tuners that were unknown to most in 1996 for 1/3 of what they sell today. Sansui TU-X1s sold for no more than 400-500., for instance...
Bob
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However, that's sadly not the case in most places.
I'm north of Chicago, I can pick up Chicago, Milwaukee, WI, Madison, WI, Champain-Urbana, Benton Harbor, MI, with the exception of WDCB in Glendale Heights there's really nothing worth listening to. Reception can be spotty with WDCB though.
I'm gonna guess that the public stations all play the same material at some point during the day. Most of their programming is probably national, or NPR. If so that's a big fail.
I don't listen to classical nor do alot of tuner enthusiasts.
Commercial stations change formats so often because they can't sell advertising for/to that audience.
You don't mention anything about sound quality. Compression is everywhere and so is digital signal correction. Regarding commercial stations, how anyone can listen to a commcercial station on a "good" "audiophile" rig is beyond me. There are so many effects and signal manipulations the sound is shit to my ears.
I gotta disagree somewhat with this statement:
"And 98% of the benefit of a roof mounted antenna can be had by selecting the limited number of models still available to buy. As the FM antenna gets bigger and bigger, with more elements, the gain and other benefits diminish very quickly over say a 6 element FM antenna. Of course, almost all the advantage comes from being on the roof, and on a rotor."
That might be true in an urban location but I'm north of the northern suburbs of Chicago and it doesn't hold true in my experience. Big time difference between 5 db of gain and 8 db (or higher) of gain on say 90 MHz.
I don't mean to sound malicious. I love tuner equipment, I love FM broadcasting and/or the spirit of, or what it used to be, I love to DX and I'm a member of FMtunergroup spun off from FMtunerinfo but let's fasce it FM broadcasting is on a downhill ride.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Below is a list of FM stations on the "fringe" of reception (easy for roof mounted rotor)
From say Mundelein Il
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=60060&state=IL&band=FM&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=
there are 9 public or college stations below 92MHz
Don't know what you "like to listen to", but
to write off 9 non-commercial stations as "nothing" is probably being more than slightly picky
to say "not a lot" of tuner enthusiasts listen to classical is also your opinion, certainly not my experience
To write off NPR programming as a whole is unusual for most quality oriented tuner folks
now for statements like this "let's face it FM broadcasting is on a downhill ride" - I have been reading this sort of thing about FM since audio discussion groups started on internet. Could probably find many from the early to mid 90's that read almost the same from the old rec.audio.xxx posts.
As above, I disagree. A lot of things are about looking for the positive, not just focusing deep into all the negative. Even one good FM station can make it all worthwhile.
From jihad's posting it's hard to get a grip on what he thinks is "worth listening to."
In my town, Madison, WI, I usually find my dial super-glued to WORT FM (89.9 MHz). It is not commercial, nor is it a "college" station or even Wisconsin Public Radio/NPR. It is a true community station, supported entirely by voluntary listener donations. It is run by a paid staff of FOUR, including two engineers and two accountants, augmented by volunteers from the Madison metro community who are not only the on-air talent, but who do everything else from legal services to marketing to answering phones to changing light fittings, sweeping floors and swabbing out the toilets.
It's not the most powerful station in town and sometimes the production values are a little rough, but its signal quality is the best around, both in analog and HD. It puts its money into state-of-the-art equipment and competent engineers to keep it all in good order.
Its programming is basically "everything-else-you-can't-hear-on-a-commercial-station-format." You will hear classical, world music, jazz, bluegrass, blues, country, historical, and just about anything else you can think of. I listen to a lot of classical, jazz, and traditional blues but WORT is special because it plays obscure and often really interesting stuff you would NEVER hear on any NPR station. And its sound quality is MUCH better than any commercial station I've heard anywhere in decades.
I don't know what jihad likes, but he could hear it on WORT SOME time, over an excellent analog or HD signal, if only he knew when to tune in.
I agree with jihad that the Telecommunications Act of 1996 has been a disaster for diversity and quality in broadcast media. I would go even further to say that this law, in tandem with the Supreme Court's 2010 decision 'Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission,' are the last nails in America's coffin as a democratic nation in any meaningful sense of the word. It seems like the entire notion of competition in the marketplace - of any of the ideals and values that originally brought us anti-trust laws in the first place - is out the window these days, with more and more of everything we eat, drink, buy, read, watch and listen to - to say nothing of our elected so-called representatives - becoming consolidated under the control of fewer and fewer big-money interests.
But if there is just ONE such alternative station as WORT in jihad's listening area that manages to exist "off the grid" of worldwide corporate empires and the governments they control, there must be others scattered all over North America. So, until these lights are snuffed out, I'll continue to care about - and use - my FM tuner.
thanks in large part to a rotatable, er, lowly Winegard 6055P, the presence of a listener-supported 24/7 jazz station 70 miles away, a listener-supported 24/7 classical station 40 miles away, and a same-distance-away community college station, all with quality signals which arrive fully separated and "clean." Which is why I've acquired three vintage Mc tuners in the last few months.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com/Room_diagram_4.png
if you're getting a clean, consistent signal from 70 miles away.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I am leary of an outdoor antenna due to two near misses of lightning strikes. Both damaged some household equipment and house wiring. However, perhaps an upgrade to an indoor attic antenna. I am receiving a few great sounding FM stations and an attic antenna will add to the list.
I bought a few tuners for a face-off that are more sensitive & selective than my hot-rodded tube tuners plus have superior multiplexers. I will add a McIntosh MR74 to list below plus a few more if I can find the select tuners.
I bought a Pioneer TX-9500II. I will upgrade capacitors in the PS plus Cree diodes, and audio grade capacitors for the audio paths from the multiplexer to output. Will perform an alignment as well, but quite sensitive as is. Also, purchased a Kenwood KT-990D with mods already performed by a well known tech.
Could not any damage be averted by a properly grounded antenna mast and an inline static discharge on the coax?
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Lightning may damage me- the hell with the tuners!
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