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I just picked up a brand new, bone stock Sony XDR-F1HD in time for the weekend.
I'm thinking with a couple of audio mods I won't have a need for any of my other tuners.
The RF performance and possible AF performance is just that much better than my Kenwood KT-8300, Denon TU-800, Yamaha T-85 and Onkyo T4711.
This little tuner is worlds beyond what any of these analog only tuners will do. Once I mod the audio output I may have to shelf the others.
Have you guys found the same thing?
Follow Ups:
I live 30 miles N of Chicago in your neck of the woods, have the same stations you mention in mind, a similar antenna setup, share the same frustrations, and am on the same path with a modification of this unit in process. Will update you on the results. Cheers, Brian.
I've been using the Sony tuner, unmodified, for a while now in a make-shift garage system, where audiophile quality isn't important. And honestly, the stations I tune play music so compressed, doesn't matter anyway.My son is looking for something simple to play background FM in his dorm room, I'm going to let him try the Sony with a pair of powered PC speakers (w/ volume control), should work well.
Anyway, searching the web for info to show him, found this outfit that is offering mods, just for anyone's information.
Edits: 01/05/10
:-)!
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
I think the XDR-F1HD is a great bargain, and if I didn't already own a Mac MR71, it might suffice as my only tuner. Was really enjoying the extra programming via HD Radio, but for some reason, my reception of that went from fair to almost non-existent in the past month or two, and it isn't the tuner itself; I already tried a 2nd unit, and it was no different.
As for pulling in weak stations, I never had another tuner near as sensitive or low noise. The Sony just does not sound good co0mpared to vintage better tuners. And, not even close to modded tube tuners, let alone some stock tube tuners..
I had my first listen (in my system) to the Sony HD unit last night. Just a quick throw it in and hit my usual stations. Actually the sound reminded me of my Yamaha TX950, fairly nice top end but a bit light overall. Did not do any dx-ing. The Sony was very flat sounding compared to my stock Sansui 517. Think it would depend on what you need whether the Sony is a good deal. If dx-ing is important, then yes, if audiophile sound is important then vintage might be the way to go.
I wouldn't be surprised if Your Sansui doesn't start sounding a bit boomy and the Sony more natural.
Just a hunch.
* I'm like a one-eyed cat peeping in a seafood store *
The Sony I had here is my brother's. He offered to let me keep it over the weekend but from what I heard didnt think I needed that long. Even the HD channels seemed to have very little imaging information. I sent it home with him that night. Personally Im heading the other direction, waiting on a super vintage (1965) tube tuner to arrive.
I have followed many of the discussions of this little tuner for the last year or so. And a lot of comments by folks that offer modifications and other tuner experts.Basically the consensus is that in terms of the ability to pick up distant stations it is a hands down winner.
But, if you are looking for audiophile quality FM sound, it cannot compete with superior analog tuners of old such as the finer tuners from Marantz, Mcintosh and Accuphase.
For the $80 that it costs, if you need a tuner, it is a no brainer. However if you are going to do some serious audiophile FM listening, there are better tuners from the days of old and new. I won't be giving up my Marantz 20B soon.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 12/12/09
Yes, it does not "sound as good" as some vintage ss or tube tuners, either stock or modded.
However, there are audio mods one can perform to this tuner to get it in the same league as modded vintage tuners.
The guy (Mike in Michigan) that has been doing the mods says it will improve them a lot, but still not to the level of the great tuners.
I wish it were so, I'd buy one and sell my Vintage Tuner and make a bundle.
Cut-Throat
You have the ability with the Sony to pull in far more stations than any "vintage performance tuner" can, with or without mods. My choices are limited with a lesser IF performance. So, I'd rather have good audiophile sound with more choices than great audiophile sound with basically no choice.
Also, the limiting factor in FM tuner audio is not going to be a modded audio output stage. Have you listened to the majority of FM stations???
How far away are they?I'm not sure that the performance of the Intermediate Frequency (IF) stages in any tuner would be all that relevant to your problem. Did you mean overall RF performance, instead?
you also commented -
"So, I'd rather have good audiophile sound with more choices than great audiophile sound with basically no choice.
Also, the limiting factor in FM tuner audio is not going to be a modded audio output stage. Have you listened to the majority of FM stations???"I've never bothered with the majority of FM stations here in Aussie!
It reads to me that signal strength is the issue where you are, on all the stations around you, including those you might really want.
It puzzles me that you seem to believe that the tuner and its RF performance should be the sole focus for dealing with stations that you want, but are weak where you are. This is a very self-limiting approach.
Because you really are only working on the back-end of the problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's look at my situation, it might help you to see the issues. I only have two stations I bother with, out of many. Yes, FM is mostly just as bad here in Aussie as in the USA.
I live in Australia's capital city Canberra, which is inside the Great Dividing Range in SE Australia. Almost all stations have their big transmitters up just one big tall telecom'ns tower on a big hill, plus lower power repeaters (with different frequencies) on two other big hills.
Because I am between the area served by the main tower, and an area served by both sets of repeaters, AND between two hills to either side, I need a directional antenna - so as to eliminate multipath effects.
Being directional the antenna also has gain, but this is only really valuable for the 2nd station - whose signal is an order of magnitude smaller than the other station. Despite this I don't get overload.
I bothered with a large directional antenna - and it's more than 20 yrs since - because I knew:-
- that no tuner can deliver its maximum RF performance or sound quality, without being into full-limiting on all stations (a strong signal) and that the signal needs to be low in multi-path, as well. And ...
- that hilly areas are rich in reflections - which will be collected by most indoor and omni antennas, and will affect the sound. Even when it isn't grossly audible multipath still stuffs up nuance and detail.
Both stations stick to good engineering principals, one provides regular live broadcasts of simply-miked acoustic music - from visiting international ensembles and Australian ensembles. The other low-power station is also a rich source of simply miked live and recorded local concerts. Such concerts constitute a true high-end source IMO.
So for me good audio results are vital. And a directional antenna with gain was thus also vital. No I did not know a lot about antenna types back then - despite having done a 'signals course' so that I could carry a radio in the harmy - I just knew what radios need from their antenna.
-----------------------------Apparently, you've decided to limit the audio performance you can get from FM, by focussing solely on tuner RF performance, when a consideration of antenna type would complete the radio reception picture.
You will thus get less pleasure from all stations, even the good ones. Even after the mods to the audio stages? Yes, because the Sony uses a lot of processing - in its RF front-end - to achieve its excellent RF performance. This should lose detail and nuance, and reports do suggest that it does.
I suggest that you shift your focus a bit. To those stations that are truly of interest to you, and determine what compass bearing those few are on, from where you live.
Then you might be on the way to knowing what kind of antenna, or antennas, you might need - to get each of those stations sounding good - through having a strong and low multi-path signal to feed to any tuner.
Obtaining the right antenna might not cost you as much as you think. Indeed for just 80 bucks - the Sony's cost - you might be able to build (and aim) 3 DIY wire antennas that each perform as well as just one external yagi and rotator. One or more of them could be a spread one to cover all the transmitters in a distant town.
Look in AA's FAQ section and read the article there, about rhombics.
http://images.audioasylum.com/images/Rhombicantenna.pdf
You just may find that a - very cheap - DIY wire rhombic antenna or two, or three, on your ceiling/s, or up in your loft, would really solve your main problem, which is signal strength.
A wire rhombic looks like <> and you point it <> ---> ?!. So they are directional, and thus have very good gain even compared to a long outdoor yagi. Each equal-length side does need to approach or exceed 11 ft. And the alignment of your rooms or roof spaces - relative to each desires station's bearing - will also be an issue.
At least, read the article!?
Lastly I would be happy to advise further, but you would need to do the research and mapping. :-)!
Other posters also asked you about where you were, or similar. IE about your local conditions.
I hope you now see why they did ask such questions.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
Edits: 12/15/09
Wow, I think your presume too much.
I've got an APS-9, and am building a 20' Yagi for 88-92Mhz. I have a rooftop mounted antenna roughly 50' from the ground. I have a digitally controlled rotator, I know the locations and terrain of all of the stations I listen to. I have been on fmfool.com as well. I'm aware of multipath, I have a meter, I am even aware of leaf attenuation from the trees surrounding my area.
Most of my tuners have been modified with both AF and RF modifications. Low loss IF filters, IF amps etc...... I don't believe any approach the RF performance of the Sony.
I'm pretty sure I've got the antenna/reception/RF factor down.
I'm 50 miles north of Chicago. Yes, I know about WFMT, I don't care all that much for clasical/opera. I know about WDCB, which, until I got the Sony I wasn't able to pick up totally clean. With the HD broadcasting I can get 3 HD channels on 91.1 WGDT FM right over the boarder. One of those broadcasts jazz on a regualar basis.
I'm not familiar with a "self-limiting" approach. I consider all aspects of a tuner's performance.
I can tell you that the HD broadcasts I have heard sound pretty good. Frequency response, soundstage, it's all there, best of all it's noise free. Thanks to the sensitivity and adjacent channel selectivity I've picked up micro stations I have never heard before. What's more incredible is they're listenable.
I know nobody is interested in AM but with a 2' tunable loop I've picked up Atlanta and Philadelphia during the day!
Is the Sony the be all end all? No, but it gets you 90% of the way there for around 10% of the cost.
okay?! ;-)!
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
No problem. All input, opinions and ideas are welcome.
It is quite common here for the antenna to be an after-thought
I rarely find people enquiring here have noted their antenna in their profile/system, hence I stopped looking. I searched just now and there were 151 using the word antenna. There would be a few more as your system didn't show :-)!
I'd also comment that we are both 'our own-path' types! And care about the sound-space.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
I was wrong.
My assumption, on the basis of experience here, was wrong.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
The Sony does not make audiophile quality sound, but if no stations available on a standard tuner, then the Sony is a no brainer. But, where would one be located in that situation? I am NY based outside of NYC, thus a have many options on many tuners.
What city?What stations do you get now?
The enquiring minds want to know
Edits: 12/12/09
The mod in question is comparable to what you can do to the output section of a Kenwood KT-815, KT-8300, Yamaha T-85, etc.........
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