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In Reply to: RE: FM Signal Amp - FM Antenna posted by DanWKW on June 27, 2009 at 12:10:49
might just be a bit better than a whip.IF you had read the whole thread!? .....
Adjusting the loft antenna to that station is what he'd already done, ....
that he is thinking about getting a better yagi. And, .....
that his cable run was sufficiently lossy to make reception of the station, iffy at best. The signal amp fixed that.The MD ST-2 is a quarter wave whip and a quite poor antenna for VHF, especially for stereo FM! It has even less gain than a dipole. Yes, if you point the whip's axis at a station it is slightly directional, but it's omni pattern surrounding that axis is STILL operating so it has of necessity a rather BROAD pattern, ne cest pas!?
That it and the FM-2G by Fanfare, which I happen to know VERY well, are also overpriced when compared to the same item at a boat shop, goes without saying.
The only way to maximise the sound quality from stereo FM is to use a directional antenna with gain, and drive the front end hard into full limiting.
If you do get good results with a whip then you are lucky, but I would add that you might still very easily hear the sound quality difference from a far better antenna. A higher return on investment (ROI)!?
The issues for FM antennas start with ....
Will I need a rotator / how many directions are there on which lie stations I truly want?
Why do I hate whips? Well, I was at one time an infantryman, and did the radioman course along the way to rank. Communication during action is vital, and concentrates the mind, esp. if you have to move just a few feet to communicate/receive!
When the PBI move on foot through the bush or jungle a whip antenna, either telescopic or a bendy pack of brass strips, was a given - despite their manifest weaknesses.
I soon learned the value to all of us, of a longer wire thrown up a tree via a weight and cord, and always carried a few sets of cord, weight and wired throwing spools (like a hand-line for fishing!?). It became SOP for me that if we stopped for more than 5 minutes, OR if we needed better, I threw one up. Did I leave a good bit of wire behind? You bet.
Just as tires determine the maximum performance of a car as a system, so does the antenna set the maximum performance of a radio reception system.
If you want to be told that your whip was a good buy, you won't hear it here.
And, recommending a whip for this particular problem, while also saying how important antennas are, is quite a HOOT ;-)!
Warmest
Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
Edits: 06/29/09
First, I thought I was just expressing my opinion on adding an ST-2 after buying MD 90 and 205, and "positive results" to me was the fact, mild enough(I thought?) and would not be interpreted as "a strong recommendation" nor "any superiority over the others" whatsoever.(Maybe my Chingalish was the fault:P)After reading your opinions, I have spent the last 24 yours relocating my ST-2 experimenting with various spots within my "small" apartment which is situated on the 40/F., of a condo.
These are what I've found:
1) Signal strength is not a real problem for me. Interference is.2) When locating the antenna, a concrete wall is always needed to block the western aspect in which one of the world largest container terminals is located. (I believe that is the source of interferences, though it could be wrong.)
3) A few of my favourite channels still suffer from interferences and instabilities which could be handled with by MD 205 FM Sleuth(ie. by fine-tuning a particular RF gain). But it then has to sacrifice a bit of the soundstage and high freq.extension.
4) I don't have to use RF gain mode of the 205 for most of the channels. RF Gain is only needed for the weakest channels. To bypass 205's RF gain is as simple as "one click" on its front faceplate.
Do you have any suggestions on another type of indoor antenna which is tiny enough for indoor use without much hassles? I don't mind to replace anything and report back in AA...(of course, all are subject to WAAA 2009!)
Thanks in advance for any thoughtful advices, Mr. Timbo in Oz.
And my humble apologies to anyone if misled by the posts.Best Regards
Dan
Edits: 07/01/09
Tiny antennas for FM are just NOT going to happen, the wavelength of a signal at 98Mhz is 3 metres long. But there is an antenna type that you can build for a few bucks, that for FM wavelengths can be pinned to the ceiling, or hidden under a rug, a room sized rug.Ask me via email and I will send you the "wire rhombic article" from Audio mag.
when you have read it, ...... you should be aware that it will depend on the orientation of each of your rooms two diagonals to the axes from there to the transmitters you want to receive. FM just IS directional. We can discuss, and kick it around, too. You should be able to build a couple or three pinned to your ceiling/s*. Hard to notice, or object to!
With a wire rhombic you can have very good results and if you build a couple and spread them you might be able to get most of what you want.
You do know where the transmitters you WANT are?
And, ..... given that some total weiners around here call me the antenna Nazi, you did VERY well indeed! {;-)}! I'm an Aussie, and not prone to the response that turneth away wrath.
If your wife LIKES FM, ...... an easily hidden indoor antenna - or a couple or three - that pisses all over anything else indoor, might just be saleable.
OR if she entirely HATES your hobby, you might not tell her at all, she may never look up. You're not prone to giving her one - prone - in the listening room, are yer, maaate?!
I am fortunate that my wife loves music.
Before I married her, Trisha encouraged me to 'get a moving coil', having heard a well set up* Denon 103S at a mate's place. Note that I was at the time running a Garrotted V15/III in a SME 3009/SII detachable shell arm - with MF polystyrene loading capacitors and MF 1/2 watt resistors to give the correct 47kohm/~450pf load.
* by me ;-)!
Warmest
Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm
Edits: 07/01/09
Only directional antennas can help eliminate interference. A rotor with a directional Yagi antenna in your attic? A preamp will only aggravate interference. No one makes a home use preamp with bandpass & narrow band notch filters. If so, entry would likely be $1K+.
seems to be too ugly for indoor use and very likely to get me divorced with my wife(which is what I don't prefer for the time being...maybe later:P).
Pls note that: all external fixtures (incl. antenna, of course)are strictly prohibited by our building management company. Antenna must fit in my small apartment.
In this case:
How about a very small satellite/disc type indoor antenna? Does anyone come across with this for FM radio?
...I have bought a new small indoor directional antenna. It proves to be much better than a whip, MD ST-2. To illustrate more sonically, when weather permits the sources are "high-rez" and the signal is strong enough, the sonic performance of my tuner comes to a par or above comparing with my CD player.
However, my learning lessons still proceed...maybe on a new project on a rhombic indoor antenna. Let's wait and see.
I have to say thank you to Timbo, the antenna nazi, for his useful information and thoughtful assistance. From now on, in my mind, when I think of Australia, the first things I have will be Tim B. and "Grange".
I assume the attic is not an occupied space. I also suspect outdoor use is restricted at your location.
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