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I've heard and read several times over the years that original tung sol black plate 12ax7 are amazing sounding tubes and actually sound different from their very common grey plates. People swear they were one of the best USA made black plates ever. I've never heard or had one and understand they are very rare and hard to find to even try one out. Is this all myth or are these tubes really that highly regarded
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Noise issues on old tubes are usually because they are old and wearing out.
If you all are interested in vintage 12ax7 there are more variations in design with the European manufacturers. It seems that the euro manufacturers like the 12ax7 type more than their usa counterparts and were more interested in achieving a higher level of performance than the Americans. I always thought they were better sounding overall.
A real eye opener for me was BBoy long plate ECC83 in an EICO HF85 preamp. Teles were not as good sounding and all of the USA made types were not nearly as good. But it might be that for that preamp the bboys just achieved a synergy.
I find most of the European tubes over rated and over priced. I will take a mil spec Raytheon black plate square getter 12ax7 over any Mullard, Telefunken or Amperex 12ax7 I have heard (have not heard the Mullard 10M, Amperex long plates or the Tele 803s however). Same with the early RCA blackplates. Heck, I even prefer the Tung Sol grey plate square getter to most Euro types. These US tubes can still be found for reasonable prices if one looks around.
The best Euro 12ax7s I have are the Siemens long plates (the short plate double getter holder are pretty good too) and the Valvo tilted getter 12ax7s made in the Hamburg plant.
Of course this is all very circuit related and based on individual listener preferences. There is no "best" tube. All the tubes mentioned are at least good (and will smoke most if not all new production), I just find many Euro tubes overpriced because of the big names and because they are "European" as if US made tubes are necessarily inferior. Some very nice Japanese tubes as well.
Enjoy the roll!
Actually, IMO, some of the Euro tubes are excellent to superb. Pricing is another thing entirely. Perhaps they are over priced because the market will allow it.
Any of the 50's Long plate Euro tubes are superb and again IMO, have few if any American equal. The differences in some instances are minimal to huge.
50's Long plates from Brimar, Siemens and Valvo Hamburg made tubes are some the best I've ever heard.
But then again, Ken Rad, Lansdale, CBS, Tung Sol and Westinghouse (true Westinghouse manufactured tubes, not re-branded) all from the 50's as well, are stellar too.
I guess if one had to generalize any tube made in the 50's are the one's to get......I use them all, rolling is a lot of fun.
Lots of great advice guys thank you. I do agree that euro tubes are best and most money. I own nos pairs of just about every version of 12ax7 from every manufacture. I'm now branching out into original USA black plates which I've also heard compare nice with the best euro has to offer. I did locate and buy a black plate tung sol and black plate Raytheon 5751 windmill getter so looking forward to trying them soon. The tung sol is slightly used although but it's all I could find. They are all but impossible to find. Gonna be tough to top the mullard 10m I think
Yes, they are fantastic and the hype is real. Very transparent, lots of resolution, excellent soundstage and body, and are never harsh, extremely smooth and liquid. Among the best US tubes made. Rival some of the Euro tubes too. Hard to find
1948-49 The Tung Sol 12AU7 black plate, clear glass w/vertical D getter has the same attributes, but is extremely to find. I am lucky to own both and they are fantastic tubes. The later 1949-51 12AU7 black plate/black glass are close in sound. The even later black glass/gray plates loose some of the transparency and resolution comparatively, but are still impressive
I haven't heard a Tung Sol tube I don't like. One of the most underrated tube manufacturer's around. The TS 5751 is another stellar tube resolution in spades and never over bearing or harsh, very liquid too.
I have a pair of 1948 Tung Sol 6SU7GTY tubes that are superb also.
YMMV based on gear and tastes.
I own Tung Sol 5751s and can only say that amongst the best 5751s that it is ordinary and average to utilitarian sounding at best IMHO of course. I don't know if I own a pair of Tung Sol 12AX7s so I will leave it at that.
I really haven't heard of a bad US made Tungsol tube, of any type. I'm sure the mil spec black plate TS 12AX7 is a fine tube. Whether it's better than a BP Raytheon mil spec 12AX7 or Telefunken ECC83 is prolly based solely on the listener's (owner's) expectations and opinions.BTW... IMHO the black plate TS 5U4GB rectifier is one of the very best. In terms of reliability and long life. And there are a LOT of quality US made NOS 5U4GB tubes out there.
Edits: 02/16/17
The Tung Sol black plate are very good. I own 1952 era. But, the tall grey RCA plate are superior IMO. The RCA tall black plate sound the same to me, but have a tendency to be less noisy. RCA black plate have this noisy issue at times or become noisy in short order.
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