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Look at where he rated the Reissue KT77s and the Shuggie Treasure 6CA7s.He put them at a tie but keep in mind that the Shuggie is twice the price of the Genelex.
I also agree with the last paragraph where he mentions NOS tubes.Save your money because we have such a wide variety of wonderful output tubes and they have caught the vintage ones and I feel I'm a testament to that because I have so many of the vintage ones that I test against all the time.
I think the biggest differences come in the smaller tubes and certain vintage tubes still hold the edge IMHO but it is getting closer all the time.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Follow Ups:
Just to address the reliability issue. I collected a bunch of RFT or Siemens EL34 nearly 10 year ago now. I tested them in amp for current draw under "real world" conditions and also for voltage output in my tube tester. I took the 4 closest matching tubes to use in my EICO HF89 PP EL34 amp. Then i tried them in my EICO HF87, when i acquired one of those during my "EICO phase". Then there were several other el34 amps that have come and gone. Then later in a custom PP Dynaco a 420 OPT amp. Since that time i have also used them in single ended amps and now have them in my latest pp el34 amp which operates at 430v on the plates at 65 ma cathode current. So, you get the point i wanted my output tubes to be out of the picture when i do testing for sound quality. I think those RFT tubes have about 2000 hours on them and i don't even know how many hours were on them before since they are used tubes. And they still sound great and hold bias perfectly.
I am not maintaining that all of this brand is like that just relating my experience. cheers
Edits: 09/13/16
Save your money because we have such a wide variety of wonderful output tubes and they have caught the vintage ones and I feel I'm a testament to that because I have so many of the vintage ones that I test against all the time.
I think the biggest differences come in the smaller tubes and certain vintage tubes still hold the edge IMHO but it is getting closer all the time.
I totally agree especially power tubes. There are exceptions but not many.
sorry, but i feel - here in europe - the prices for many reissues have overtaken vintage tubes meanwhile. mocking high quality by high prices?
if you want my opinion save money by going for vintage and enjoy thousands of hours reliable performance.
"Science only illustrates the current state of errors"
"if you want my opinion save money by going for vintage and enjoy thousands of hours reliable performance."I agree on the smaller tubes..My favorite 12AX7s are the Telefunken Smoothies,the Amperex DD getters,and the Mullard 10M,not in any particular order.
On the output tubes,New Sensor has done a phenomenal job in recreating the originals and even sonically besting the originals in some areas.I have my original Genelex RI KT66s I got from Jim McShane in 2008 and I use the hell out of them and 90% of the getter flashing is still on the tubes.
You can buy four quads of reissues for the price of one Quad of NOS/NIB clear glass GECs and I guarantee you they would not out last four quads of reissues or even two quads.I have never had the base come loose on the Reissue KT66 but I have on my NOS/NIB KT66 smoke bottles and they did this from sitting all these years.I know what you mean when you say that some of the new tubes are priced higher than then their vintage cousins but we are talking the EAT and the KR tubes as well as other exotics.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 09/18/16
that I bought years ago and they sound fantastic.I worry reliability issues tho as there were so many problems with the octals.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I am also using the JJ KT77 with truly great success. I tried the Gold Lions and though they were good, the JJ's are just simply better. Better bottom, more extended highs and midrange to die for.
Rather than compare the JJ and the Gold Lion to other EL34 type tubes, I compared them to a NOS pair of M-O Gold Lion KT77's that I own. The JJ's sound much closer to the M-O's than the Gold Lions do.
am also using the JJ KT77 with truly great success. I tried the Gold Lions and though they were good, the JJ's are just simply better. Better bottom, more extended highs and midrange to die for.I agree the mids in the JJ KT77s are very nice but the bass and highs,I didn't find that to be the case so much.The JJs were more gentle in the way they present the music.
I also compared the reissue GL KT77s to my vintage metal base EL34s,my Amperex D getter EL34s,my Mullard XF1s and XF2s dual OO getters,and my Telefunken five staple,single pupil EL34s,and every blasted one got taken down the by GL reissue KT77s. I also have two pair of GEC KT77s that came in one of my Dynaco ST70s that I bought locally in the early 90s.They sound ok but didn't have the upper or lower base of the GL reissues,and the high end smears in comparison to the reissue KT77s..I think I just prefer Tetrodes like the KT77 is.
I'm starting to think that my full range ribbons and full range ESLs are allowing me to hear things I wouldn't otherwise hear and maybe I should reevaluate with a box type speaker just to see if my opinion of these tubes would change.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 09/14/16 09/15/16 09/18/16
I do have some of those around. How do they compare sound wise to the GL KT77s?
I have both and the JJ's are a little darker sounding. Mine are newer production that originally came from a reliable internet vendor. I got them second hand just to try 'em out. The GL's came from Jim.
Interesting list. I wish that he tried the EH 6CA7's though. For the price of his top rated tubes I'd rather hunt down a quad of RTF's but that may be the guitarist in me. They sound fantastic in a Marshall amp.
Have you heard the KT-77 Genalex?
Yes, the RFTs are nice too, no doubt. But I'm with Mikey - the Genalex reissues are the best, at least IMHO.
All three of the KT series Jim. The KT66,KT77,and KT88 all beat the originals or at least equal them sonically..I know the RI KT77s beat the original KT77s and the KT66s beat the originals as well..You also notice that the bases never come loose the Genelex KT66 reissues.
The KT88s I can't say if they last as long as the originals as the verdict is still out on that.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I have not. I'm sure that it's good and I respect your opinion. What I'm really worried about is if the Gold Lion stand up to something like a RTF in long term durability. For the extra money over other current production stuff I'd like knowing that besides better sound that I also got a longer lasting more durable tube. Also, I find that the EH 6CA7 sounds fantastic in a stereo amp and is like half the price. In your opinion sound wise what does the the GL KT77 have over the EH 6CA7?
Hi Danny,
The RFTs (not RTF) are quite durable, they were made in E. Germany by one of the lesser known but (IMHO) highest quality tube makers. So it is very durable, yes, even more than many other old stock tubes. It was a shame to see that plant close.
But my experience is that the reissue KT77s are also quite durable. Whether they are as good as the RFTs is another story. I think the RFTs (like the GE 6550A) are extraordinary quality examples of durability. I can't say the KT77 is as good - only time will tell. But if it isn't it's close enough that it isn't an issue. There's a lot to be said about being able to get a replacement tube if you need one - or to get matched sets of tubes. In that area the '77s have a huge advantage. plus the price of the RFTs is significantly higher than the Genalex.
Finally - in answer to your question regarding sound - I think the KT77 does everything a bit better than the 6CA7. Maybe not a big difference in any one given area, but definitely better.
I think the KT77 does everything a bit better than the 6CA7. Maybe not a big difference in any one given area, but definitely better.Definitely better..The EH 6CA7 is very good but the KT77s are definitely more refined.The Shuggie Treasure 6CA7 run with the KT77s but they are twice the price of the Genelex KT77s. I like the Genelex reissues in all tubes.. PERIOD!
They are cheaper then their vintage cousins and sound as good or better and I'm not the only one that says that.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 03/03/17
After months of moving I finally have my stereos to play with again.
When I set up the VTA ST-70 I first popped in the Gold Lion KT66s. Just an incredible tube in ever respect.
Looking for a more mellow sound I retried the Shaguangs (sp?). Darn I guess I really am a EL34 kind of guy.
After I settle in I have to try those EL34s you recommended. Now I have to find the link to the ones you mentioned. As well as a few others.
Charlie
Try the KT77s or the EH 6CA7s.I can tell you that one or both will trick your fancy.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
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