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In Reply to: RE: Decent 5AR4 tube for less then Mullard prices.... posted by popsy on July 24, 2016 at 17:27:08
running a Will Vincent Dyna 70 was completely blown away by using a vintage Mullard 5AR4 that I couldn't afford.
The difference was staggering.
Bought a metal based Mullard 5AR4 soon thereafter that I REALLY couldn't afford for an even better experience.
I didn't think I could afford either but after using them couldn't afford NOT to buy them.
I think we ate cheap for a couple weeks afterwards...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure
Follow Ups:
Seriously - as in you can't be serious - rectifiers are just that as in rectifiers! I told my EE buddy about this belief and he laughed for 5 minutes! Audiophiles hear what they want to hear and 90% of the time it is just BS!
It's nice you two found one another.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
"Seriously - as in you can't be serious - rectifiers are just that as in rectifiers! I told my EE buddy about this belief and he laughed for 5 minutes! Audiophiles hear what they want to hear and 90% of the time it is just BS!"
Seriously! Your EE buddy must have gone to Trump University if he doesn't understand the ways in which a change of the plate supply voltage and a change of the output impedance of a power supply can affect the sound of a tube amplifier.
equal. To laugh about something like this, and mean it, is ignorance.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901s balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, HE1000, HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. Balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Good for them.
BTW... I found a United GZ34 sitting way back in my stash. You have anymore left?
Nice Mullards. Yes I have some. Watching the price go up. I also have some Valvo that are in nice boxes from the same guy that are Mullards. Not too long after that he offered me some and doubled the price.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901s balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, HE1000, HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. Balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Except for the one I found. Not one complaint. Great deal.8^)
Edits: 07/28/16
Found these in my stash....
"I can't compete with the dead" (Buck W. 2010)
"It would take me forever. I don't think I have forever" (Byrd 2015)
" Most are in the amps and I have about 14 new in box Amperex/Mullard but Labeled GE and RCA and one metal base that says Philips miniwatt.It's funny because when I started evaluating GZ34s,it puzzled me why metal base ones sounded better in many amps than the fat based XF1 Mullards or the Amperex.So I started taking voltage measurements to see if I could see some reasons why. It turns out that metal based GZ34s were putting out 12vdc to 19vdc more than their Amperex/Mullard counterparts. This got me thinking so I tried GE copper plates which are one of my favorites,but it put similar voltage to the Mullards.. I kept trying more rect tubes until I came across this 5AU4 Raytheon tube which is essentially a 5V3.It's in the lower right part of the picture.I put the 5AU4 in the Leak ST-50 and the B+ voltage off the 5AU4 rect was identical to the metal base GZ34.I listened to the amp,and it sounded identical in every single way from top to bottom.
Here it where it gets complicated.These tubes draw 3.5amps of filament current where the GZ34 draws 2 amps and when I measured the filament voltage on the 5AU4,it was identical to the GZ34.The Leak amps have a huge power trafo being they can power two mono preamps as well as the amp,I let it run for 7 hours straight and would you believe it ran cooler with the 5AU4 than the GZ34? I told a friend in California with another Leak and he said I'm way ahead of you.I've been running the 5AU4 in mine for 3 years.He also said his ran cooler as well.It makes no sense but before you put this wonderful tube in that you can buy NOS/NIB for 8 to 12 dollars,you need to make sure your power trafo can handle the extra filament current.. All you have to do is measure the filament voltage with the 5AU4 installed and if it stays at the same voltage as your GZ34, you are good to go.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 07/29/16
aa
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Marty
The metal based ones come out of old Sherwood mono integrated amps..I got two of those you see in my picture.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
moved over to a vintage Mullard, then a fat based vintage Mullard, then the apex, a metal based Mullard.
Remember it being a major improvement in the first two steps and a slightly less (but still quite noticeable) audio improvement from the FB to the Metal. Took this journey from reading reports here at AA about similar journeys. Always felt that with these vintage tubes IF I didn't hear
any improvement I could sell the tube for what I paid for it, maybe 10% less. That's one of the pluses buying used anything.
Anyway, was never a tech guy, so reading your report add credence to my subjective experences.
That Will Vincent ST70 (my first tube amp) LOVED the metal based Mullard GZ34!!!!!!!
I paid VERY close attention to all the tube changes done over the years to garner as much
listening experience as possible in getting to where I wanted to be.
The rectifier tube was easily as important as ANY of the power or driver tubes.
BTW Mike, my name isn't Marty.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
But it isn't Mike either!
Hope the situation with those cursed stones is improving.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I was so tired that night I thought I was addressing Viridian.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
...and totally enjoy the results. His current requirements with that VM unit are easy on a 5V4GA; Plus, the 5V4 will sound very similar to a "real" 5AR4/GZ34. 5V4G is also very underrated and its' ST "coke bottle" shape looks very cool.
5U4G or GB is a 5V/3A rectifier. 5R4G, 5V4G or GA, GZ32, GZ34/5AR4, 5Y3G or GT are all 5V/2A rectifiers. Any of these 5V/2A rectifier tubes will sound a bit "different" than the 5U4. Many folks insist that the "voltage drop" spec indicates the sound differences. Having performed tube rectifier "shootouts," I assure all listeners that the voltage drop spec does not tell all. Even rectifiers that have the same "drop" in voltage can easily sound different. Musetap heard this legitimately for himself with original GZ34 types. Common consensus is 5R4 and 5Y3 types yield the smoothest mids, as can a 5U4. GZ types and the 5V4 always seem to yield tighter yet punchier, well defined bass.
Less pricey 5AR4/GZ34s were available from GE and RCA (and other brands) with their made in the USA offerings of decades gone by. Also, Japan made a nice GZ34 and 5AR4 a few decades ago. These "bargains" should now cost less than $60. each, easily. If epay is the reference, good, used GZ34s can be bought for only a bit more. Knowing which vintage original British or Dutch GZ34 to really go after is the key; but, remember online we compete with the world. Any "real" Mullard GZ34 is going to sound real good. However, the earliest versions are coveted for their sonics; not simply rarity.
Without a doubt, Popsy, plug in a $30. shipped to your door 5V4G or GA ASAP and wait on the real deal of a GZ34 down the road. While you are at it, get a $10. 5R4G and hear the sweet mids...Enjoy the journey....
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
IME, these work well in most units that take GZ34 as OEM. There is a small difference, esp in transient response. But, they are tough tubes, good life.
And you can get them relatively cheap. I like the Tungsol BP and the CBS-Hytron 5U4GB. But, the RCA, GE, and Sylvania ones are just as good.
a 1956 GE 5U4GA/GB black plate...so will be interesting to hear the difference with a 5AR4 tube in the circuit...
Be sure to check new plate voltages and re-bias, when changing any rectifier.
Good luck!
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