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142.254.2.185
I want to create this data so that it exists as doing a web search digs up plenty of threads on new production EL84/6BQ5 tubes being used in guitar amplifiers, but cannot find much in reference to hifi. Years ago I did a big EL84 shootout with a friend of mine using a pair of Heathkit UA1 mono amplifiers, an Eico HF81 and a pair of Alon speakers. The results were that the vintage Amperex Bugle Boy and Russian 7189/EL84 6P14P sounded the smoothest, warmest and overall most musical. I have never done such a comparison for modern EL84s. I'm hoping that this thread will expand and will serve as a general guide to anyone who is considering new stock tubes. Please cut and paste this list and post your impressions with as much detail about the actual sound quality that you're willing to provide. Avoid comments such as "I compared tube A to tube B and tube A blew it away. There was no contest, tube A is better" as these type of statements say little about the actual sonic characteristics. Here's the list. This represents the most commonly available options:
EL84 JJ Electronics-
EL84 Electro-Harmonix-
EL84 Sovtek-
EL84 Groove Tubes-
EL84 Valve Art-
EL84 Tube Amp Doctor-
EL84 Mullard Reissue-
EL84 Tung Sol Reissue-
EL84 Genalex Gold Lion-
EL84M Sovtek-
EL84 Russian Military 6P14P-EV-
Feel free to add to the list any that I have missed. Thanks for your participation!
Follow Ups:
In our ZOTL10 we've switched from (all current production tubes being discussed) Tung-sol EL-84s to Gold Lion EL-84s and have found an overall improvement but primarily in the treble, which is more refined with the Gold Lion. We've found the reissue Gold Lions to live up to their positive reputation other places we've tried them: the 12AT7s are also a nice bump up from the Tung-sols, which are already good current-production tubes. Space, instrument separation, clarity in the treble. The ZOTL circuit is very sensitive to tube changes, and any coloring of the amp is dictated by the tubes, so there's that.
MBS,
I can only contribute with a plug for the New stock JJ's. Never been disappointed using them in my own builds.
Stuben
I actually like JJ EL84 sonically.It's a very nice tube and very elegant in how it presents the Music..In the Heathkit AA-151,I liked it better than most but it's not strong enough for a 7189 amp.
All the tubes you mention are very good but the Gold Lions are very nice as well..It depends on the amp so there is no clear cut answer for the best sounding as they are all somewhat different with different circuit parameters.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 07/21/16
;-).
They are the best value, the most neutral, while still sounding like valves.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
snip: sounded the smoothest, warmest and overall most musical
According to your ears.
"I can't compete with the dead" (Buck W. 2010)
"It would take me forever. I don't think I have forever" (Byrd 2015)
Well technically there was also another person there, but yeah, I would think that what you said would be completely obvious to anyone reading, but thanks for pointing it out.
Sound descriptions like "musical" is not standardized in any way that I am aware of. What parameters make a tube more musical than another. To me that is the same thing as saying you like the way a tube makes your music sound. There is nothing wrong with someone saying they like one tube over another. That is an honest opinion, if there is something more like "the tube seems to produce more pronounced and extended high frequencies" that is a bonus.
I got mine from Jim McShane and I have no complaints. At first I was suspect if they would perform being a vintage kind of guy. But my irrational fears were allayed quickly once I heard this tube in MY stereo.
It does everything well with no shortcoming that I can hear. It replaced some vintage EL84's that I thought were good. Until I popped these in and it was like a vitamin shot in both cheeks.
Good strong tube that still maintains the magic of the EL84 name.
charles
The Russian 6П14П-EB (6p14p-ev), AKA EL84M, is a very tough, genuine, 7189 equivalent. More than 1 nice "vintage" amp would get "parted out", if not for the 6П14П-EB.
Eli D.
Where are you guys buying these? I'm having trouble getting reliable product on ebay.
EBone is, all too often, worse than Dodge City, KS, was, before Wyatt Earp arrived. :> ((
When it comes to tubes, I prefer dealers with solid reputations. My go to guy is AA sponsor Jim McShane, but other reliable sellers are around.
Eli D.
He only has the Sovtek EL84M now per his website. He says the military tube is hard to find now. eBay shows quads for about $50 plus ship from Ukraine and other spots in Asia.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
I can tell you from experience that the match on those "quads" is suspect. Properly matched quads are hard to find, so what I take as your inference that I am misrepresenting the availability is not accurate.
I don't carry the Sovtek EL84 because they are not particularly good tubes. The EL84M (which is the current production 6P14P-EV!) is a VERY good tube.
Russian 6P14P-EV and the JJ EL84. The JJ has a warmer tone. More midrange. The Russian 6P14P-EV as a bigger sound. More headroom.
The Russian tube survives quite well in Class "A," cathode-biased amps.
Both the wife and daughter have little Jolida integrateds that use a pair EL84's per side. So far have experience with the same two you've mentioned in those amps. My experiences matches yours. All around the Soviet tubes win, but the JJ has its own charms that keep them in the running. I have a set of Sovtek EL84M's here on the shelf, but have not had the opportunity even take them from their boxes. So happy with the 6P14P & the JJ, the Sovteks won't see the light of day until one or the other sets in use croak.
Please post when you do finally try the 84M. TIA!
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
:-)
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Tim, you may well be right. The only for sure difference is the vintage. The 6P14s I have are from the 1970's and the M's are some forty years newer.
Tim is correct. The EL84M designation is just the Sovtek numbering for the 6P14P-EV (or EB) tube.
:-)
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
IME, when it comes to output stages of both hi-fi and most guitar amps --- the requirements of the tubes is about the same. really, that's more-or-less true with gain stage, too.
Same old RCA 6L6GC, Westinghouse 7591A, MOV/GEC KT-66 are desired. Same old RCA 7025, Raytheon 12AX7A, Valvo 6021, TMBP Sylvania 5751...
8^)
to sound like it can IE 3D, (which live doesn't quite.) The least lossy recording method. With minimal edge cancellations and timing anomalies? Ask?
NB 3D at home helps you notice all the following.
Interplay and ensemble, antiphony, expression and 'an approach' to live music's dynamic range, and ...
Timbral accuracy - IE attacks and decays done right, stops and starts, nuance. Matching rise and fall rates in room.
ALL of the above are orthogonal.
LBNL Enough dbw power & PSU reserves for; the room size, listening distance, and the owner's /owners tolerated maximum loudness.
That is the basis on which I judge home hi-fi set-ups.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
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