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http://www.partsconnexion.com/tube_nos_6dj8_6922.html
Looking on Chris's website for tubes. I am getting a phono preamp custom made and we need 6 tubes for this thing. Of all the NOS tubes available on his site, which ones would be a good batch to get? I'm looking for a sound that has good dynamics, so I want tubes that will compress the sound the least. I had Valvo ones picked out for that reason, but they sold out it seems. Also want the sound to have good air and depth, and not roll off the extremes too much. Bass control is also important.
Any suggestions?
Follow Ups:
For me it comes down to the big three; Amperex, Telefunken or Siemens. In my Arc Preamp, nothing else comes close (the Russian "rockets" do not make the grade).
In my preamp's phono section they sound like this to me.
The Teles are very clean sounding but darkish. The music does not have the "illuminated from within" sound of the other two. I prefer the Tele 6DJ8 to the gold pin 6922 as it is not quite as dark.
The Amperex have "sunny" sound to them with lots of life and dynamics, but are a bit less clean sounding in the midrange, a little more euphoric than the other two.
The Siemens have a very detailed, clean sound that's a litter brighter and more dynamic than the other two.
Pick your poison.
Just one man's opinion.
Enjoy the roll!
If I had initially paid the big bucks for one of those three, I'd have great sounding reliable tubes. Instead I went new production and ended up paying more to go through a number of brands (either unreliable and/or mediocre sound) before I found one that is relatively reliable and decent sounding. Probably still won't hold up or sound as good as your top three. Oh well, live and learn.
Here's an example. Recently a 1955 Hammond organ came in for full restoration, Electro Tone reverb installation and some mods. All original tubes, almost all working perfectly well. The tubes are now probably worth more than the organ.
I guess all I can hope for at this point is that a few folks here learn from my mistakes.
Thanks for generously sharing your knowledge with us.
I vote Tesla/JJ. They are cheap and sound good. Some people have issues with them. I have not had many problems. But if one goes noisy they are so cheap it is not a big deal.
I would like to try the Mullards he has on sale. But, at this point my system sounds the way I want it to. I'm not really motivated to change the sound much in my preamp.
Still a great reference list, even though it was written many years ago.
I'm the guy that bought those Valvos. I have tons of Siemens, Amperex, and Mullards in my collection. So I jumped on these just so I can hear what they sound like.
One of the key feature you want in phonostage is low noise.
FrankC
You bought 37 pairs of Valvos? Kinda a lot isn't it? All I needed were 6.
Didn't realize they have more. I bought the 3 they had listed on their used OS section.
FrankC
I know these are not vintage but heck, the Gold Lion 6922's are great!
Hungarian Tungsgram 6922s with yellow lettering.This is of the NOS ones.
I do like the Genelex 6922s but with McShane testing and matching them for microphonics and balance..
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Worst 6922 I've ever used, new production or NOS.
That doesn't mean airtime is wrong. It means that these tubes are application sensitive so be careful. Great in his system, terrible in mine. Costly mistake if they don't work for you. Lots of better options, NOS or new production.
Thanks I didn't know that. I use it in a Conrad Johnson linestage with great success. For vinyl - I never tried using it.
I also had problems in my Herron line stage. Very conservative design with special features to extend tube life.
Glad they are working so well for you.
The German Valvo or Siemens/Halske E88CC. Telefunken are also good. Never tried the Tesla E88CC (factory 32?). but, they are supposed to be good, too.
Edits: 05/30/16
If it's for a phono section, I would recommend the British made Miniwatt they have for sale. It's not as dynamic (top/bottom) as the 1960's O getter Amperex they have, but will be less prone to noise, last longer, and have killer mid-range detail.
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
If you can change the tube to another type, spec the preamp for 5670/we396. They have similar characteristics to a 6dj8 but sound much better. They are also much less expensive.
"If you can change the tube to another type, spec the preamp for 5670/we396. They have similar characteristics to a 6dj8 but sound much better."
I've never seen anyone express this before, but I agree entirely. I just bought six more NOS 5670 on the bay for about $25. I have used both 6N1P-EV and 5670 in the "El Cheapo" circuit and much prefer the 5670.
Very good little tube and relatively inexpensive. I've never found a 6N1p I've liked though.
Naz
Many good phono circuits use 6N23P-EV tubes.
Industrial quality, low noise and microphonics, long life (10000 hours) etc.
These Reflector made 6N23 tubes are very good tubes, and after burn in (about 100 hours) makes very balanced sound with stronger bass than average.
Pcx selling matched tubes. It's very important, soviet tubes are famous to variation of parameters, so matching is necessary.
You mentioned tubes that he does not use in his phono pre.
as DeKay pointed out below.
IMO, you cannot beat the Voskhod Rocket label 6N23Ps for dynamics and sheer value. They sound better than 95% of 6922s that I've bought including stupidly expensive types. I even prefer them to my Siemens CCa varieties in some aspects and I find a mix of both types gives me the best overall result.
Naz
Thank you NAZ. The price is right, so I got 3 pairs of them. We'll see how they fare on the preamp.
The type 2 and type 3 are excellent with the type 2 having a slightly warmer sound..The 6923 type 3 is my favorite.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I got them from an online seller of course. NOS unused stock, so yes new. Paid $45 for a pair, and got 3 pairs. The ones I'm getting are the 1971-73 Single Wire gray shielded versions. He is going to have them all matched.
The custom phono pre is designed around the 6922 tube. I didn't ask if he is willing to redesign it for another tube type, but I doubt it.
Sorry, should have mentioned that a reliable seller has/had them on sale for $12 a quad, admittedly not matched. At this price these tubes have to be the world's best value!
Would be interested in your findings when you try them, please let us know.
Naz
HUGE difference between the two.
Actually Victor I screwed up and was two minds to go into the detail here.
This thread reminded me I should buy a couple more spares. Did a search for 6N23p and a set of 6N2P popped up which I grabbed by mistake. It had been a long time since I bought them and they used to be dirt cheap so I didn't think twice ... until seeing the prices paid further down the thread.
To cut a long story short I swapped them out for some 1578s the seller had, only yesterday. Seems like 6N23p have increased in price over the past few years.
While we are on the subject of Ruskie tubes, some are my favourites of any type. Some, like the right 6H30p have become extremely rare and expensive but the 6N23p are still absolute bargains by comparison.
You have the best knowledge of these, can you enlighten us about the different versions available please?
Naz
If you mean the 6Н23П-ЕВ, then I only have limited experience with them, as these are not available in OEM quantity. We had some Reflector tubes and they were quite good, with low noise and microphonics, I liked them. They would be my favorite. The other factories for some reason did not float my boat.
At that price it may be later year models. Like 90s and up. Apparently the really good ones to get are in the 70s, and to a lesser extent 80s. By the 90s they were just ho hum by then.
Hmmm, think I may have bought the last ones at that price and they were definitely 70's, sorry. I wouldn't be too disappointed with what you paid, you'd have to pay many times that price to get a 6922 which sounds anywhere near as good.
It's made me wonder how long they will remain cheap. I used to buy metal base 1578s (6SN7 equivalents) for $20 a pair and they steadily went up to over $200 a pair because they were that good!
Naz
I think mine are coming from the Ukraine too. That said I haven't found any 70s version available anywhere else online, let alone cheaper.
Sorry for the misinformation, you can rest easy:-)
Naz
Naz
What I've noticed with small dual triodes like 12AX7s and 6DJ8/6922s is it's more about mircrophonics than it is matching. For a driver the tubes with higher microphonics aren't that much of an issue but for phono and preamp gain stages,they are..Is there a way to tell which are the series 2 or series 3?
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
"...it's more about mircrophonics than it is matching."
Michael, have you considered using the 5755 in phono pre service? It needs it's own circuit, it's not a sub for the 'AX7, but I think it's got a lot of promise. I've been trying to find time to get onto this myself...
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I have a lot of those in RCA NOS/NIB and I've been itching to use them..Thanks for the tip.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Are you sure they're RCA? I thought only Raytheon had ever made this tube. An RCA version must be very rare.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Mike,
To be honest I don't know about series 2 and 3s. I've bought several different dates of this particular tube and found great consistency over a wide date range. Most of mine are 70's which are widely available at very low cost and I can vouch for them.
I particularly like the Rocket label Voskhod tubes over the others, including Reflector and Saratov which produce some great tubes in other varieties.
As for microphonics, I have never encountered a problem with these.
Naz
Are using these in the SET amps that drive the Logan ESL panels?
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Yes, I am using these in the front end of those amps and also in one position of my LCR phono stage.
Naz
I also have an LCR phono (Cole) that uses two 6922. What are your using in the other position? Thanks.
I built my own design using WE416 planar tubes in the front end with no SUT (used to use 6C45p or 6C15p) followed by 6N23p and pre nineties 6H30p in the third (line) stage. Best I've ever built. LCR itself uses discrete components, inductors wound by Dave Slagle.
Naz
Thank you. Very interesting design.
Well, you said that you were having the unit custom made. Guess you should clarify exactly what "custom" means. I made the same assumption Euro did that you could have it customized to whatever tube type you wanted, within reason. The 6N23 (as well as the 6N1P, post below) are excellent tubes for phono applications, as they are very long lived, quiet and non-microphonic as well as inexpensive compared to good NOS 6922s or 7308s. But neither are direct substitutions for a 6922 (and neither is a 6DJ8, for that matter).
If you're limited to the 6922 family, I agree that a 7308 would be a good choice for a phono application, and if I was limited to that tube type, that's what I'd be looking for.
.
I stand corrected. Was a bit careless lumping the 6N23 in with the 6N1P. Thanks for pointing it out!
Bill
I've got a CJ ET-3 (NOT the SE version), and I'm also trying to tame the treble with some tube rolling. I bought my preamp used on eBay and the seller included some rat-sucked Electro Harmonix Groove Tube instead of the original.
To date, I've tried a Genelex Gold Lion (which did NOT help - still got that glowing, radioactive treble). I have, on the shelf, waiting to be installed a Telefunken and a Russian tube from the Voskhod factory.
I'm sticking with the factory 6299 / ECC88 tube. Others are pin-compatible, but may not work as well...
In any case, I'll let you know what (if anything) sounds better in a few days. If you find a 6299 you really like, I'd like to hear about it too. Thanks!
ECC188/7308. Now, I don't know who Chris is, so I don't know what he has to offer. Telefunken are the best I have heard (my preferences); then Siemens; then Amperex and Phillips. Of course, there are different models. But this is a start.
I was wondering how much 6 Telefunken 7308 type tubes would cost these days? I didn't see any price parameters set by the OP except for a willingness to buy 6 Valvo E88CC. I will look that up.
Cost issues aside I agree with your choices, I like the Siemens and the Philips Choices including Amperex (and the USA Amperex in particular) . My personal favorite in this category is a Mullard CV-2493, but it doesn't sound like most Mullards, it has plenty of treble and upper midrange. I don't know where he can buy six of them. That many of any excellent NOS E88CC in the current state of NOS tube-dom may be too many to expect from any single source. I wonder if two different E88CCs might be a better approach these days?
I was wondering how much 6 Telefunken 7308 type tubes would cost these days? I didn't see any price parameters set by the OP except for a willingness to buy 6 Valvo E88CC. I will look that up.
Cost issues aside I agree with your choices, I like the Siemens and the Philips Choices including Amperex. My personal favorite in this category is a Mullard CV-2493, but it doesn't sound like most Mullards, it has plenty of treble and upper midrange. I don't know where he can buy six of them. That many of any excellent NOS E88CC in the current state of NOS tube-dom may be too many to expect from any single source. I wonder if two different E88CCs might be a better approach these days?
I posted the link to his tubes at the top of my first post.
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