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Hello,
My name is Daniel and this is my first post.
I have a CJ PFR and a CJ Premier 17 LS2 with the stock EH 6922 and it's time to retube it.
I have read a lot about the big number of tubes to buy, but I have choosen only two options:
. Tesla NOS 6922
. Genalex Gold Lion 6922
My kind of sound is dinamic, with punch, big holographic scene, warm sound, very present and rounded bass, forwarded voices ....
Please, would you help me about which is the best option of the both described?
Many thanks and best regards
Daniel
Follow Ups:
I think you may circle back to EH6922, but that's just my own experience. It has much of what you're looking for in the mid-bass department. If you're not experiencing that now, consider your speaker system. If your amp is correctly designed, your speaker enclosure design, crossover design and quality, and room placement of the speakers (e.g., baffle step situation) will have for more impact than rolling tubes.
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Thanks for the clarification, Airtime.
I'll write to Mr. McShane to decide.
Jyourison, yes, I'm agree with the importance of the main elements. I have a large room acusticaly treated, and the rest of elements are working fine with other solid state preamplifiers. In this case, my CJ 17LS2 is sounding thinner and bored than, i.e. my CJ PFR or my Bryston Pre.
This is the reason to try to retube the 17LS2 to get a sound bigger and with more body and scene.
Thanks again !!
I forgot but what amp are you using with that CJ?
It could just be a simple impedance mismatch?
Try a high input impedance amp and see if it "thickens up" the sound.
charles
Hi Charles,
My amplifier is a Bryston 4B-SST and the loudspeakers are PMC OB1i.
The installation offers with other preamplifiers, i.e. Conrad Johnson PFR, Sonographe SC26 and Bryston BP-25, a good scene with fuller sound than the Premier.
The Bryston has the option to change the input voltaje, but this only gives a little more presence with the 1V option.
I have test the Premier with my other amplifiers (Threshold T50, Counterpoint SA100 and Metaxas Iraklis) and I get the same sensation.
In this case, I think that the impedance is not generating the thinner sound, but .....
I have just purchased a pair of Tesla with reasonable Price and later I'll buy a pair of Gold Lion to test combining them into the Premier.
I.E. putting the Tesla on High section and Genalex on Low section.
What do you think about it?
Many thanks for your interest.
ok
tonight i turned back to 6922 eh (gold)from gold lion i left for
3 weeks :it's like to breathe again ,the music flows through the
room and you can enjoy it walking around too ;litlle sounds ,like
bells or whistlings are suspended on air.
If oyu like punch and fist on stomach ,itis not your cup of tea ;
in this respect it seems to lack solid bottom respect Cat sl1 or
evem Premier 3 ;but 17 ls is so magic and airy without being
overlush....it is a beast on his own.
With gold lion 6922 you lose something and the sound becomes a
little boomy, with Tesla the sound becomes too much romantic ,
loosing energy in the bottom.So i think the better move is to
stay with the best Eh you can find .
I've tried to mix tubes (there is not a bass or treble position ,
but only left -right )but i always turned back to eh .
Final amplifier ,on this rig,is a Thresholt sa3(50 w class A)Jbl 4311
with alnico speakers for ...apeakers.
Ihope this helps
Ciao
Marko
Hello, Marko:
Curious about the 6922 in your CAT. All CAT SL1's use 6922 as input to phono and as cathode followers (V1/V2, V5/V10), but older versions of the SL1 use a 12AU7/ECC82 as first tube(s) in the line section (V6/V7). Which vintage of SL1 do you have? And when you roll the 6922 in your CAT, which positions are you rolling them in? Also, do you have favorite(s) for the 12AX7/ECC83 positions? I also have an SL1 and am always curious what other owners like in them.
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike
i've always read your posts .
My Cat is reference from the 80's,i know him like my wife and i
have rolled several tubes in it
To begin with i have to say that the most important positions
are v6/v7(12au7):i've tried philips,teles,raytheon,but i've
always turned back to Rft ,but it's not that simple ,because
you have to find the right ones ;i reject overall 10 -12
to find the right couple (i use a B&k 747 but it is not
sufficient )
Last time i left 2 tung-sol ,following your advise too,
and they are not so bad .
For 6922:v1 v2 v5> sovtech ,Eh(but they span from orrible to
marvelous ,again it'a hard work to find the right
ones )
v10 > always used ecc 88:old philips ,not the frame
getter,but the one marked GAdelta Z1F(they
can be remarked Geb,Tungsram or Philips);
or Amperex (holland)
sometimes i found ecc88 Vokshod did the trick
For 12ax7:Ei,JJecc83s(if you find the right ones very very
nice )
I've always tried to preserve the carachter K Stevens gave to
this pre,smooth and precise(convergence ).
Now i'm in love with c-j 17ls ,but i've always turned back to my
old lovers.
Ciao
Marko, thanks for your reply. I actually have two SL1s. My original unit was the last iteration of the design Ken offered that used the 12AU7, an SL1 Reference circa 1991. Agree that the RFT is probably the best choice for that job in the original designs. The SL1 Renaissance I am currently using is the latest iteration of Ken's design. It is a truly amazing machine and I feel very, very fortunate to own one. I've found Telefunken 6922s in V1/V2 along with Amperex 12AX7 in V3/V4 to be a phono combo that pushes all the right buttons for me. Both V5/V10 currently occupied by Siemens 7308s. V6/V7 using JJ gold pin 6922, and JJ ECC803s in V8/V9. My old unit, as you say, is preserved the way Ken meant it to be with EHs in V1,2,5&10, Ei's in V3,4,8&9, and RFTs in V6,7. Entire complement of tubes in it came from Ken when last it was re-tubed. Sadly however, the old unit sits on the shelf unused. I've threatened to find it a good new home, but what you said about past lovers is too true. Some day the right situation will present itself and I will pass it along. It is still, after 25 years, a great sounding pre, and too damned good for someone not to be using it and enjoying it.
Best,
Mike
Many thanks for your review, Marko.
I use to listen classical and jazz music in about 30%, but my preferences in music are specially rock and metal in the other 70%.
For this reason, maybe the Gold Lion will be better for me. I have not yet recieved the two Tesla, but I'll try them before to buy the GL.
Maybe, my four EH (Conrad Johnson stock original tubes) are already defective (nine years of use) and this is the reason that now I don't like to listen the 17SL2.
I haven't tried EH gold pin. It is so big the difference with the normal EH?
Thanks again and best regards
Hi Daniel
there is no big differences between plain Eh and Eh gold ,the important
thing is how they are matched ;if you see tubes of the same batch
they look identical ,they have same date date ,same print ,but
between there are dudes ,good ,very good ,excellent .
This is why tou have to buy from reliable sellers , if you are not
able to do it by yourself ;this it means to buy for example 20 tubes
to have a good matched quartet (i'm saying good not excellent !)
So it is up to you .
This is the method i use :i buy 4 eh ,4 eh gold ,4 jj ,4 gold lion
and i try to understand what is the sound i'looking for .
When i understood what i want i buy ,for example, 20 Eh tubes
and try,with a tube tester and by listening through 2-3
preamplifier , to match them in quartets ;after then there is
premature failure ;as you see is a big job (i'll do this because
i like to unederstand as much as i can when i'm interested in ..)
Alternative :buying from honest reliable sellers who have to charge
the right peremium for the job .
Back to c-j 17 ls :i advice you to get the best 6922 eh you can ,
or simply buy a 4 just to try .if uou have a 9 years old tubes
you will hear defferences also with mismathced valves .
And in the end ,(sorry tonight i'm too long )if you like rock and
metal ,17ls is not your pre ,even with the best tubes in the world .
You better go with a soli d state pre from the 70's like ,for example ,
Pionneer Spec1 (the phono is excellent ;line so so )
Or the Bryston you already own (i often change pre for different
kind of music ....and i listen from piano,string quartets to
electronic ,techno,experimental passing to lirica too )
I never listened to a rig that did everything at best,and ,often,
it is not a matter of cost .
Ciao (hope not being boring)
Ciao Marko,
Many thanks for your long answer. Nothing boring, of course.
I thought that the Premier with the correct tubes will be so appropiate like my Conrad Johnson PFR, but as you say, maybe I'm wrong with it.
Last month, I heard an installation with one Premier 17LS with Sovtek and a Threshold T200. With rock music, this combo was awesome. This is the reason to try to find the adecuate tubes por the Premier.
I prefer to buy the tubes from a good seller, because I don't have a tube tester and enough money to buy a big number of tubes to select the better and matched.
When I receive the Tesla, I'll try them. I'm sure they are well matched by the seller.
I'll write the result on this post as soon as possible.
I really appreciate your help. Have a good day.
saluti
You are welcome .
Since you live in Barcellona (what a beatiful place!)
you may find useful this site www.enovaz.com.
He is an honest old guy who sells at very reasonable prices .
He told me that in the old days mullard el 34 were sold for
what now is 1 euro.(sometimes i would like to have a time
machine)
I am not affiliated and hope this not contrary to any rule
Grazie, Marko,
This shop seems very interesting. I'll write to the seller to ask for the tube matching option.
In the past, I worked on Milano and I could have used to go personally to the store, but I no longer work on my previous italian Company.
Thanks again !!!!
saluti
Make sure you burn them in for about 20+ hours before making any serious judgements.
In the end all audio is is a matching game.
If your present sound is thin then the EH will not be the right tube. It has a leaner but VERY nice sound.
The GL are much fuller
Remember that 17ls is inverting :you have to invert polarity on
speaker or amplifier ;you may have thin sound if phase is not
correct.
Cheers
Yes, I know it :-)
But many thanks for the advice.
Regards !!!
Hello,
Many thanks for your answers and help.
My system tends to be slighty brighty and maybe a darker sound would be a good option for me.
But, when you say 'darker sound', it means that some of the high frecuency sound will disappear?
Thanks again
Slightly bright > no doubt go with gold lion 6922(no, high frequency
won't disappear)
The difference in price doesn't match differences in sound anyway
:eh an GL are 2 faces of the same coin;a little bit dark and heavy
on bass ,the gold lion ;more linear , Eh .
I've experenced this not only in C-j17 ls ,but in audible illusion
and cat sl1 too
Adeł
Thanks, 2Con. Interesting comment.
Adeu !
Thanks, Charles.
It's time to play !!
Regards
Jim McShane can help you better pick a tube more suited for your needs. Go for the GL. It is a very well balance tube and just plain great at everything. If things get "dark" from there then it's your system that's dark.
Usually dark means either a softer treble or a more fuller lower midrange. Some people like it while others just prefer a well balanced system.
I have the CJ Classic 2SE.
Get the goldlion 6922. It does everything very well. A big full sound without getting tubey and bloated. Excellent in every way you mentioned.
If you need more leaner tube with more upper range and a cooler mid then get the Electro Harminox. Again a good tube but with the sound signature I just mentioned.
My kind of sound is dinamic, with punch, big holographic scene, warm sound, very present and rounded bass, forwarded voices ....
I have 17 ls ...very delicate and smooth sounding ,it is voiced by c-j
with sovtech-eh 6922type.
If you want punchier and darker ,but 3 d sound go with gold lion(the
russian ones )
If you want a bit of old style sound go with jj-tesla ,but they don't
last and fastly became too round and unfocused.
Other nos i've tried they did not last too long .
If i were you i will try a very very very good selected 4 eh 6922 ,
the best sound i had from that preamplifier(see jim mc shane ,uncle ned
and other reliable vendors)
Talk to AA sponsor Jim McShane and get good advice about filling your requirements.
Eli D.
If it was me, I'd go with Tesla. The Tesla's have very many of the same characteristics, IMO, as vintage Telefunken 6922's. The Tele 6922 is IME the most balanced sounding 6922 out there. It gets more things right than any of the myriad others I've used. Your taste may certainly be different. The GL is a very good tube, but I found it a little too thick and dark sounding. If the rest of your system tends toward bright or edgy, the GL would be a good choice, but my on-the-fly pick would be the Tesla's. You may also want to look into the gold pin version of the JJ 6922. The "new" Telefunken Black Diamond 6922's are super selected JJ's.
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